To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

Legally not by starting a war. It's been made very clear to Israel they can only use self defence when they stop illegally occupying. They could have withdrawn their occupating and then started a war, that would have been legally appropriate.
HTH

By your definition of terrorists becoming government leaders and ministers you have IRA members and Nelson Mandela (whose name was not removed from the US terrorist list until nearly his 90th birthday).
Many countries are run by people whose citizens voted them in after an uprising against perceived oppression. Others force themselves on their country through fear like Hamas ( who threw members of the PLO off the tops of buildings).

@ThisNattyTurtle who started this war they are going through???

The Haganah terrorised and assassinated many British and Jewish people who spoke against their atrocities, like Lord Moyne, Count Bernadotte, Jacob Israel Haan. Oh and of course they hanged British soldiers from trees and booby-trapped the bodies so the soldiers who discovered them were disabled, and bombed the King David hotel killing 94 off duty Brits. But if they didn't specifically throw someone off a roof that makes them A-OK, got it.
(Not even getting into what they did to the Palestinians, see below).

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-06-13/ty-article/.premium/the-hidden-terror-attacks-of-the-haganah-israels-pre-state-militia/0000017f-e69b-dea7-adff-f7fbb12e0000

Well, Israel had Gaza under a total blockade by land, sea and air - a de facto occupation as per the UN. It periodically picked off people with snipers or carried out bombing campaigns - 'mowing the lawn' is what Israeli media and politicians referred to it as. Mowing the lawn. It regularly killed fishermen in tiny wooden boats trying to catch fish to eat in the 6km strip they were allowed to enter.
In the West Bank meanwhile - no Hamas, secular PA, renounced armed resistance - Israel maintained a brutal military occupation and violent apartheid (UN, HRW, Amnesty, B'Tselem) and kidnapped civilians including 700 children per year, killed unarmed children AVG 20-30 per year.
All of this is evidenced by the UN, Amnesty, B'Tselem, Human Rights Watch. So you tell me. Why did you suddenly start caring about hostages on Oct. 8th, when there were 400 child hostages in Israeli jails Sept. 2023? I care equally about both sets of hostages, do you?

if Islamic fundamentalists slaughtered 1200 at Glastonbury festival and surrounding villages and kidnapped civilian hostages - some of whom they then shot point blank in tunnels and others still have - and whose stated aim is to destroy England - what do you think the UK would do?

That was 18 months and 50,000 dead Palestinians ago. What's your excuse for the latest atrocities?

The main problem is that all the "statistics" coming out of Gaza are from Hamas, and echoed and amplified by useful idiots.

Israel sniper kids and babies that's how accurate they are and of course the Israeli's and the rest of the inhumane world think that's ok because they are Hamas. They also drop 2000lb bombs to wipe out whole families.

Glastonbury?

If Hamas or another hostile group took over a hospital in Tel Aviv that was full of Israeli patients, I doubt the IDF would blow up the hospital killing the civilians. They regard Palestinian lives as expendable.

What Hamas did was evil. The indiscriminate annihilation of Palestinians is also evil.

Nope. Lots of the stats I provided come from the West Bank and Jerusalem, independently verified by Israeli volunteers and other NGOs on the ground. MSF was on the ground in Gaza for approx the first 15 months and documented how its staff and ambulances and vehicles were deliberately targeted. See MSF head testifying on this 1 yr ago:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=VVjZ_XpbIDQ&pp=ygUSTXNmIHRlc3RpbW9ueSBnYXph

@WanderInMyTime and they’ve still got hostages. Did you watch the hostage released? Hamas won’t stop. What do you think Hamas would do if it was militarily stronger than Israel?

@Letmecallyouback an equivalent of the nova music festival. You might want to watch some of the footage from that.

Jewish American Dr. Mark Perlmutter on what he saw on medical service in Gaza - "distinct signs of genocide" and the world's best sharpshooters shooting children precisely in the head, chest, heart.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2QdalGDpCIU&t=8s&pp=ygUZbWFyayBwZXJsbXV0dGVyIGludGVydmlldw%3D%3D

So - the UN, ICJ, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, MSF, B'Tselem, Oxfam, Save the Children, medical doctors - they are all useful idiots.

Got it. Who are the reliable sources then, please advise?

BUT THE PALESTINIANS WERE OPPRESSED BY ISREAL YEARS BEFORE THE OCT ATTACKS. THEY ARE A PERSECUTED PEOPLE.

Why can't this be recognised? Why do some refuse to acknowledge that the Oct attacks were a culmination of years of oppression by the Israelis? No-one condones what Hamas did. But there is a fucking backstory - and it's that bit that everyone supporting Netanyahu's murderous campaign seems happy to omit from the history - why? Because it would totally undermine the Israeli's current cause of racial extermination.

Let's not be wilfully blind people - it's even worse to pretend war atrocities never existed than to 'fess up. Otherwise we will find ourselves on the wrong side of history here I'm afraid.

What if!! what if !!!

Hamas or whatever organisations they have called themselves have never been stronger than the IDF, it will never happen.

But your comment actually makes sense, Hamas wont stop, some Palestinians will always chose to take up arms against, as they see it, the aggressor... the conflict is never ending and no amount of bombs will stop it.

All Israel is doing is making sure the terrorists have a "call to arms" to recruit more and more young men and women who will seek revenge.

Its very sad and extremely short sighted.

Absolute bollocks.

you don’t think the Jews have been oppressed?

October 7 is the result of a vile radical Islamist ideology that wants to destroy Jews and liberal democracies and the west.

Well, the British didn't slaughter innocent Irish people, or even NI Catholic people when the IRA killed many innocent British people in terrorist attacks over the course of the troubles. They could have done, and easily won any war too because they had every advantage. But they chose not to. The two scenarios are very similar.

Hamas are just one of many Islamic fundamentalist groups that REALLY do want to destroy Israel and kill as many Jews (and Christians) as possible.

People should remember that Israel is a democratic state. Even disregarding Gaza, mass killings of Arabs and dispossession in the West Bank is their "norm". The scale of the Gaza killings in unusual for them.

As many of you know, my DF was in the British Army, and we're from NI too. @Dontlletmedownbruce Of course our army did kill many innocent republicans civilians, it is well documented. But the scale differed. Indeed we could have have flattened West Belfast, removed Catholics, large parts of Derry, etc. But we did not do it in the 60s/70s/80s. We are not Israel.

Where on earth is your evidence claims that Hamas wants to kill Jews and Christians?
Gaza has an indigenous and ancient Christian population whose churches and ways of life have been preserved and protected. The reason the churches and the wailing wall in Jerusalem still exist is because the Muslim majority that was in power for over 1000 years protected and respected them. There are still indigenous Jewish populations in Iran and Iraq (see Avi Shlaim, Oxf. Prof of History and an Iraqi Israeli Jew, talking about this). Mark Perlmutter is a Jewish doctor who went to Gaza during this genocide, wearing the star of David around his neck. He had no issues, testimony is on YouTube. Prof Nick Maynard a surgeon from Oxford has been to Gaza many times, his testimony also can be found on YouTube. Hamas actually says in its charter it is against Zionists and Zionism, not Jews.
Israel is democratic only for it's Jewish citizens. It's stated aim is to maintain a Jewish majority, and it discriminates against the 20% Arab citizens in order to prevent them gaining equal status or power (Google Human Rights Watch, Israeli Apartheid - 3 layers of apartheid, the worst for Gaza, the 'mildest' against its non-Jewish citizens)

Unfortunately, a Palestinian life is meaningless. I recently watched a video about a child born in February of this year who has passed away, because of Israel. Theres cases where an entire bloodline of a family has been wiped out, leaving only one child. Naturally, these children are vulnerable and susceptible to Hamas’ ideologies, hence creating a new generation of Hamas. It’s a never ending cycle.

The fact that they've killed over a thousand Jewish people should give you a clue. And their founding charter. And the antisemitic things Hamas leaders have said. And the Hamas terrorist who phoned his parents to tell them how proud they should be because of all the Jewish people he murdered.

Honestly, this whole Hamas aren't antisemitic shtick is really fucking sick.