To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

So much victim blaming in your comment.

The difference is that one atrocity was committed close-up, by terrorists who took gleeful pleasure in their rampage of torture, rape, murder, abduction and public display of mutilated bodies, with the admitted and specific intent of provoking the outraged country of the victims into a war that the terrorists hoped would mobilise the rest of the Arab world onto their side. Their leaders have stated that they will keep repeating such attacks unless their demands are met. The leaders cared then and care now nothing for their own compatriots, including children, who would suffer in such a war; they are on record as calling them "necessary sacrifices". Their hope of other Arab countries joining them in war has not been fulfilled, but they have certainly succeeded in gaining the support of many "useful idiots" who, unlike them, care about the suffering Gazans and claim to oppose Hamas but don’t seem to care how their anti-Israeli rhetoric bolsters Hamas.

The other side in the conflict don’t, in general, think or act like that, or have specific aims or orders to rape, torture or murder civilians etc., though in any army there are always individuals who behave badly, and should face consequences. This side care about each of their citizens and know that their country is surrounded by enemies who would like to destroy it and them.

That's the difference.

The other side in the conflict don’t, in general, think or act like that, or have specific aims or orders to rape, torture or murder civilians etc., though in any army there are always individuals who behave badly, and should face consequences. This side care about each of their citizens and know that their country is surrounded by enemies who would like to destroy it and them.

The other side their members are being investigated for war crimes and also for raping and torturing civilians. Their government has also spoken about them as animals and indicated that they’ll cut food, water and electricity and have made calls for destroying Palestine and committing ethnic cleansing . They are also allowing illegal settlements to expand and not punishing those that are setting fires and causing trouble.

please don’t tell me it’s individuals for jsrael but not for Gaza. If it’s individuals behaving badly in Israel then it’s as well those that behave badly in Gaza.

this is not one country good one country bad. There are citizens in both countries that should be behind bars (their governments included) and the key thrown to the sea.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dpxHVUFj74k

Jewish activist in the West Bank describes how she and 2 other Jews were beaten and stoned by... Israeli settlers! Y'know the Jewish religious fundamentalists who are stealing land in the West Bank (according to international law). And who watched these 3 Jews get beaten up and did nothing to help them? The Israeli army and police.
These settlers then chased and beat the Palestinian Oscar-winning director of No Other Land. The Israeli army and police then arrested...the Palestinian victim! But sure, Israel doesn't target innocent civilians.
In the WEST BANK, no Hamas govt no Oct. 7th but still the same Israeli ethnic cleansing and apartheid as per the ICJ, UN, B'Tselem, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch

And where are the investigations into the people who committed the rapes, tortures and murder of October 7th?

You rightly condemn Israelis who talk about wanting to destroy Gaza and kill Palestinians. Many Palestinian and other Muslim leaders have for many, many years talked openly about wanting to kill all Jews and destroy Israel. Did you condemn them too?

I believe there are several around the world (I believe some posters are talking in this thread about one done by some MPs in the uk, as well as several have been done within Israel). Also, high level Hamas members have (or had as they’ve been killed) arrest warrants.

But none actually happening in Gaza, or in the countries where Hamas leaders were/are sheltering, even before the Israeli invasion started.

And? Does that mean that Israel government / idf should do as their please ignoring international laws ? Not sure what’s the point you’re trying to make.

youre trying to paint Israel government/ idf as innocent people who had no choice but to kill (innocent) civilians (whilst ignoring laws) and it’s all gazas fault. And I’m pointing out this is not the case. There are citizens in both countries that are as bad as each other (including their extremist governments)

Very well put. Tired of people trotting the same inaccurate arguments over and over.

The Israeli government have proved time and again they don't care about hostages. They want the land, and Trump is going to facilitate that in any way he can.

It's absolutely abhorrent that our government blindly supports Israel and that people still trot out the, it's complicated line.

I know all about what happened on October 7th and I’ve repeatedly said it’s horrific and should be condemned.

i suggest you look beyond that at what Israel has done in return. Propaganda has worked on you and I will no longer be responding to someone who justifies the killing of thousands of children on either side.

Nowhere have i "justified" the killing of children. I’ve just tried to give some context to the dreadful situation - which is what Palestinian supporters are always claiming to want to do. But apparently you only want it in one direction.

And you don’t think propaganda has worked on you? How sad.

There is no context to killing children ( either Palestinian or Israeli)

It is heinous and unjustifiable. Once you can put the word "but" in a sentence about children being killed, humanity is lost.

If Hamas were under an Israeli hospital would they bomb the patients? C'mon now

But for Israel's armed forces it is individuals behaving badly. They have not planned to rape and murder or torture, nor have they been ordered to do so. Those accused are being investigated.
But Hamas' fighters and allies, and ordinary citizens of Gaza planned and carried out rapes, and murders and torture and their government is not investigating them, because the rapists, murderers and torturers were ordered to do these things by their government.
That's the difference.
And yes, Israel does things I disapprove of, and Netanyahu's government is at deep fault, and Israeli soldiers do either ignore events they should intervene with or do things for which they must face investigation but the government is not a terrorist one and it does not call the casualties of this war necessary sacrifices.

But only one side is targetting children. And it's not Israel.

That is completely false

Well I suspect that’s where we will permanently disagree. I believe the Israeli government is doing exactly that. There’s are multiple reports of rapes and torture committed in the same way in Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza by Israeli soldiers. There is hours of footage of IDF soldiers laughing, mocking, taking pleasure in their war crimes. There are members Of the Israeli cabinet who have been convicted of terrorism offenses - so it is at all levels on both sides.

Both Israel and Hamas have behaved in ways that I couldn’t have even imagined until I’ve seen the footage with my own eyes. Neither are better than the other. And both have caused unforgivable amounts of civilian deaths. Israel’s murders are certainly outstripping Hamas’s by quite a sum, but that doesn’t diminish the lives lost on either side.

Well it seems unlikely that Hamas are going to hold investigations into their own soldiers. They’re a terrorist organisation with no moral scruples.

Israel claim to have the most moral army in the world, so you’d think there’d be no stone unturned in their investigations into the bad apples amongst them if their intentions were otherwise genuine?

There were actually a mix of many different faiths, including jewish people in her group and they were treated the same. There are huge numbers of jewish people who actively campaign for Palestinian rights, amazing jewish scholars who have written about the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. I know some really lovely wonderful people of the jewish fate who are horrified by Israel’s actions!

trye. Israel as a country isn’t. Some Israeli citizens are tho.

They have not planned to rape and murder or torture,

please re read that sentence again.

Imagine that your whole family was wiped out by terrorists and they were raped it burnt alive. Would you just say hey that’s okay and do nothing? Like hell!!

There is something between your nothing and what Israel is doing. It doesn’t have to be black or white. Israel doesn’t have to behave like terrorists

Well exactly. And that’s exactly what’s going to continue radicalising Palestinians to Hamas

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RB5RUV8by00