To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

I stand by what I said - Hamas recruits what the UN calls children, i.e. teenagers. The UN admits this - the figures are theirs. And small children are dying because Hamas (which recruits child soldiers, remember) uses them and their mothers as human shields. No-one in Gaza would be dying if Hamas had not planned and executed a genocidal raid on Israel on Oct 7th (anniversary of Lepanto).

I did not say I cared nothing for the wars in Yemen and Sudan - in fact what I said implied that I do, very much so. However, this thread is about Israel and I am tired of the casual anti-Semitism (the second oldest hatred) displayed by people who seem to see Hamas and its allies as the good guys.

So as far as you’re concerned, criticising Israel means you see Hamas as the good guys and are anti semitic?

Tentatively I agree with you. However, if one is doing the hundreds of years bit, the people we call Palestinians (and Arabs in general in this area) only arrived in this area of the Meditteranean in the 8th century AD (or CE if you prefer, they are exactly the same era, dating from the birth of Jesus called the Christ), whereas the Copts, the Jews, the various Christian sects all pre-date that invasion (and forcible conversion of many) by the forces of Islam.
Under those circumstances and with the horrors of the Holocaust in mind, a grant of some of that land to be a home for Jews seems a reasonable accommodation. We should arguably do the same for the Roma, 2M of whom died in the Holocause along with the 6M Jews.
On a lighter note, if we are handing back ancestral lands, can England have back Normandy, Aquitaine etc?

You are resorting to insults but accusing me of being a toddler?

You said you dont find groups of Jewish people threatening. The men who attacked an Oscar winning director and his family were a group of Jewish extremist settlers. I would assume that because you posted that in response to my post on Jewish extremist settlers that you are including them in your groups of Jewish people, why else would you have said that in response?

You've shown now that you have very bigoted views of Gazans and like it or not that does explain a lot of your posts.

No, rape is rape. It even includes Jews.

Yes who is the pp referring to exactly. On this thread?

Again, I point you towards the word ‘evidence’. Nobody actually knows who killed them because neither side have produced any evidence. You do understand what evidence means? Unless of course you have inside information.

Since I am that poster I will answer. First, you tradduce me. I do not exclude blaming Israel and would like to see independent observers (i.e. not the UN, not the US or UK, not the EU, not any indigenous peoples etc.) overlooking Israeli treatment of prisoners (with the caveat that making men strip to their underwear in order to check for suicide belts and weapons is common practice in any war and is not abuse).
Hamas are to blame for the deaths in Israel and Gaza - but Israel is not blameless. That Netanyahu enabled the attack in Oct 23 by shifting forces to the West Bank (which Israel should get out of) makes him and his government culpable. Getting back the hostages should have been the first requirement of Israel's government - but negotiating with terrorists is a) difficult and b) generally frowned upon world-wide. What do you suggest Israel should have done after women and children were raped, burned to death, sexually mutilated etc and all this put up on the www?

I wasn't lying, but the Palestinian Authority, though not Hamas, is allied with those who fight against Israel's existence and there has been film shown (BBC, I think, pos Sky) that prisoners have been released showing no injuries to them but when they arrive home have suddenly got on plaster casts and bandages showing they were beaten by the Israelis - which is a little suspect.
I don't believe people who appear uninjured in one shot and in a later one appear injured. Iffy.
Of your specific question, yes, I would believe the girls - what I am sceptical of is the source of the information on the girls, which is not necessarily them.

Israel should not be in the West Bank. But you have given no evidence that children aged 12-16 are not using sling shots to kill people.

I am waiting for someone to suggest that the Parliamentary Report on Oct 7th is pro-Israeli and unfair to Hamas.

there is absolutely no evidence that "the majority of the population in Gaza has as their clearly articulated goal to kill jews"

Yes, the Hamas charter states this. No, not everyone in Gaza will agree with the Hamas Charter.

No-one has ever believed the earth is flat. Do you know why kings carry an orb? It represents the earth, which is round. Flat-earthery is a fairly modern idea - the Nazis considered it, along with the idea that the earth is a spherical shell and that the sky we see is inside that shell. Not that I am conflating flat-earthers with Nazis, I just point out that idiots believe idiotic things, and Nazis were idiots, unfortunately extremely vicious ones.
The trouble with the experts you quote is that experts are not necessarily objective and we now live in an age where we are divided into oppressed and oppressors, victims of colonialism and colonialists. Hamas falls under the oppressed and victim of colonialism labels whilst Israel (and all the West) fall under the oppressor and colonialist labels. These labels are both symplistic and nonsense. Hamas are not victims, but Jews have been throughout history. Hamas are descended from the Islamic colonists who swept through the Levant in the 8th century AD (not going through CE again, same dates) whilst Jews are part of a previous wave of colonisation, at least a 1800 years previous to that (David was king of what is now part of Palestince c. 950 BC). So Israelis are both victims and descendants of colonists and Hamas are oppressors (terrorists, in fact) and descendants of later colonists.
Anti-Semitism is also endemic in the West particularly, often shrouded in pity for the Palestinians displaced by the creation of Israel. In order to see Hamas et al as victims the amount of knot-tying a pro-Palestinian has to do would defeat Jason (Gordion knot).

https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php

These guys would disagree with your first line

Yes, a worrying amount of people seem to equate being Palestinian with being a member of Hamas

Prove it's false.
It is well-documented that women and teenagers are included in terrorist groups. E.g. ISIS - or have you forgotten Shamina Begum?

I can only assume thats where the level of apathy towards dead Palestinian civilians comes from.

I am amazed at the number of people on here who think Hamas are victims, tbh.

A thread about 150 children being killed in a single night … are you equating them to shamina begum?

Please have a little bit of respect to these innocent children many of them similar age of the bibas.

Not necessarily. But many who do criticise Israel seem to think that Gazans and Hamas are totally innocent victims - it became obvious on Oct 8th 23 that many on the left cheered on the attack on Israel as oppressed victims making a stand. They applauded rape and murder as proper actions by victims in respect of their oppressors.

They can do so. They are wrong. They can go and watch a ship disappearing over the horizon, which is proof the earth is round. Evidence.
There's a good chance they'd agree with me re experts, though!

I don't think any right thinking person thinks Hamas are victims. I've not seen any argument for that here. But blanket and widespread retaliation to a Terrorist group, by a sovereign nation against an entire population, is insanity.

Of course theyre wrong.

But you can't say "absolutely noone thinks the earth is flat" when there are millions of (wrong) people that do!

Okay. Gloves off. Israel is not targetting children. Children are in the way of the air strikes because Hamas has prevented them moving and has not provided bomb shelters for anyone except themselves.
Hamas, on the other hand, planned and executed the murders of children in Israel on Oct 7th.
Who is the evil one here? Those who accidentally kill children who could be out of their path (and are warned to be so) but are prevented from moving and are not protected by their government, or those who do it on purpose, out of hatred?
NB Shamina Begum was an example. She was not the only teenager and woman who supported ISIS.