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To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

1000 replies

ThisNattyTurtle · 22/03/2025 07:53

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

OP posts:
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Northernlass1234 · 24/03/2025 22:46

What has this got to do with the current war? The settlers issue is an issue but that doesn’t excuse what Hamas did/are doing

LoyalAquaOtter · 24/03/2025 22:46

2024onwardsandup · 24/03/2025 22:35

@LoyalAquaOtter you’re hiding behind small children in your rhetoric in the same way as Hamas hide behind them literally.

hamas are evil psycopaths who want to kill all Jews in Israel and, with their Muslim brotherhood comrades, are quite keen to move on to killing all infidels.

it is no longer an issue of self determination for the Palestinian people at this point - but a question of destroying hamas.

it is horrific that hamas slaughter so many civilians and took civilians hostages. It’s horrific that they are failing to protect civilians in any way.

Seriously I'm just like Hamas? Cop on.

What are Jewish extremists? How do you think they feel to Palestinians when they are burning down their villages and killing them? Their slogan is literally 'Death to arabs' they daub it on walls when they burn down their mosques and they teach their children to chant it on their annual parades. Why is there no question of 'destroying' them? Because you don't feel that they are a threat to you?

You continually play down the seriousness of what the Israeli government, the IDF and Jewish extremists do. They rape, they torture, they murder, they openly call for the death of Arabs. It couldn't be more clear what they want and the threat that they pose to people, just not people that you care about.

Namechangedforgoodreasons · 24/03/2025 22:54

ThisNattyTurtle · 24/03/2025 18:09

For the people defending Israel's actions here I have one, very simple question.
Why do you not want Israel to save their hostages by obeying international law, ending the occupation of the West Bank and releasing the Palestinian hostages? they could have had all the hostages back 9th Oct.
The West Bank is ruled by the secular PA which fought Hamas out in 2006 and renounced armed resistance to Israel 30 years ago.
Israel could release the hundreds of Palestinian children it's holding hostage (NOT charged with terrorist offences), end the illegal occupation of the West Bank, withdraw the 700,000 illegal settlers, and allow the Palestinians to have a state for the first time in 76 years, and in so doing defeat Hamas from within. That actually is the two-state solution which our govt and the EU and the US supposedly support. Why is Israel not doing this and why are you not calling on it to do so?

Edited

I support a two-state solution and I support ending the occupation of the West Bank. But I don’t support the idea of rewarding kidnappers for their crimes by paying the ransoms they demand, because everyone knows it just encourages them to do it again so they can demand more.

And although I don’t agree with holding Palestinians in Israel without charge, I think it is ridiculous to call them "hostages", and deeply insulting to the people abducted by Hamas.

LoyalAquaOtter · 24/03/2025 22:55

Northernlass1234 · 24/03/2025 22:46

What has this got to do with the current war? The settlers issue is an issue but that doesn’t excuse what Hamas did/are doing

Who is 'excusing Hamas'? The only excusing I see is of the Israeli government and the IDF who rape, torture and murder people. Apparently it's 'hysterical' and 'hiding behind small children' when you point out what they do though.

Vargas · 24/03/2025 22:55

Genuine question - what did people think would happen when Hamas committed the atrocities on October 7th? That Israel would not retaliate? Hamas must have known what would happen to the Palestinians? Would all these innocents be dead if October 7th had not happened?

2024onwardsandup · 24/03/2025 22:55

@LoyalAquaOtter there are about two million arabs in Israel isn’t there - going about their lives with equal rights?

and no I don’t find Jewish people as a group threatening. I do find hamas, and people marching in support of them, very threatening.

if the idf came to my town for a conference I would not be remotely concerned, and I would not be concerned for any arabs who were here.

if hamas came to my town for a conference I would want the army here immediately. And I’d also be concerned for any Arab’s who were here.

i actually remain very sympathetic to the Palestinian cause - ie actual Palestinians. But the “free Palestine” movement these days has nothing to do with actually supporting Palestinians to have free and happy lives.

Northernlass1234 · 24/03/2025 22:59

Such a complicated issue.

so we all want a ceasefire - I’m sure that’s one thing we all agree on but how? Hamas won’t release the hostages or relinquish power?

so what do israel do?

LoyalAquaOtter · 24/03/2025 23:03

2024onwardsandup · 24/03/2025 22:55

@LoyalAquaOtter there are about two million arabs in Israel isn’t there - going about their lives with equal rights?

and no I don’t find Jewish people as a group threatening. I do find hamas, and people marching in support of them, very threatening.

if the idf came to my town for a conference I would not be remotely concerned, and I would not be concerned for any arabs who were here.

if hamas came to my town for a conference I would want the army here immediately. And I’d also be concerned for any Arab’s who were here.

i actually remain very sympathetic to the Palestinian cause - ie actual Palestinians. But the “free Palestine” movement these days has nothing to do with actually supporting Palestinians to have free and happy lives.

That's lovely that you don't have to be concerned. I wish the teenage girl who was taken from a checkpoint and raped multiple times or the Palestinian baby burnt to death by settlers as she slept or the children being sexually abused in Israel detention could not feel threatened too. Unfortunately that isn't the reality. And unfortunately because you don't feel concerned or threatened you refuse to speak out for the people who aren't just threatened but are actually killed, raped and tortured by them.

You would sooner speak out against people who want Palestine to be free from the occupation of the people raping and killing them.

LoyalAquaOtter · 24/03/2025 23:05

Northernlass1234 · 24/03/2025 22:59

Such a complicated issue.

so we all want a ceasefire - I’m sure that’s one thing we all agree on but how? Hamas won’t release the hostages or relinquish power?

so what do israel do?

Oh my god. They move onto phase 2 and 3 of the ceasefire. That's what they do.

Sorkh · 24/03/2025 23:07

2024onwardsandup · 24/03/2025 22:35

@LoyalAquaOtter you’re hiding behind small children in your rhetoric in the same way as Hamas hide behind them literally.

hamas are evil psycopaths who want to kill all Jews in Israel and, with their Muslim brotherhood comrades, are quite keen to move on to killing all infidels.

it is no longer an issue of self determination for the Palestinian people at this point - but a question of destroying hamas.

it is horrific that hamas slaughter so many civilians and took civilians hostages. It’s horrific that they are failing to protect civilians in any way.

This. How can there be so many women( I'm presuming) on Mumsnet who are seemingly supporting an anti women Jihadist regime. It's mind boggling. Why are there so many normally left leaning western women supporting a far right Islamist terrorist group?

And OP, the PA in the West Bank still have the "pay for slay" policy which costs hundreds of millions of dollars a year. They're not innocent.

Israel is a secular democracy. Every citizen there has equal right by law. They also have conscription. I think 99% of the IDF are amazing peace loving people .There are bad people in every countries armies who do bad things but you can't transport that to the whole army who generally are there because they're fighting to keep their country and families safe.

Hamas are barbaric Islamist terrorists who need to be taken out. The ordinary people in Gaza will also be better off without them.

2024onwardsandup · 24/03/2025 23:07

@LoyalAquaOtter i very much want Palestinians to be freed from Hamas. How do you reckon Palestinian women and girls are treated by Hamas?

is it your genuine belief that the idf are operating in Gaza the same way that Hamas acted on 7 October?

WanderInMyTime · 24/03/2025 23:07

This reply has been deleted

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Northernlass1234 · 24/03/2025 23:09

Phase 2 - isHamas to release the rest of living hostages? They won’t/havent - so now what?

2024onwardsandup · 24/03/2025 23:11

@LoyalAquaOtter did you not watch the hostage release “ceremonies” and think oh my god these people are insane psychopaths!!??

Northernlass1234 · 24/03/2025 23:14

omg that ceremony of the Bibas mum and was just too awful for words. It wasn’t even televised it was too horrific- they had a picture of Netanyahu with fangs wtf! These people are just nuts. I have a lot of sympathy for ordinary Gazaans but i worry that they are so indoctrinated to hate israel

LoyalAquaOtter · 24/03/2025 23:15

2024onwardsandup · 24/03/2025 23:11

@LoyalAquaOtter did you not watch the hostage release “ceremonies” and think oh my god these people are insane psychopaths!!??

It's my genuine belief that raping and killing no matter who you are and whether you do it with your bare hands or with a drone or sniper rifle has the same effect on the victims. They are still dead, they are still raped.

Again you are deflecting from Israels crimes. I'm sure they are treated like shit under Hamas but that doesn't change the fact that Israel rapes, tortures and kills them. Like I said no matter who you are it has the same effect on the victims.

And yes I did think they were psychopaths. I also think half of the Israeli government and the Jewish extremists that spend their time wishing for the death of Arabs and burning people out of their homes are phycopaths don't you?

LoyalAquaOtter · 24/03/2025 23:16

Northernlass1234 · 24/03/2025 23:09

Phase 2 - isHamas to release the rest of living hostages? They won’t/havent - so now what?

You actually have to read the news.

2024onwardsandup · 24/03/2025 23:24

@LoyalAquaOtter again - I ask you - is it your genuine belief that Israel’s strategy and goal is to rape and murder?

I am not saying that this doesn’t happen. I have no doubt it does, and as I’ve said, those who do this should be accountable. And I would say that there are no doubt many awful examples where this has happened and there has not been accountability.

but it is disingenuous to pretend that Israel - as a political, cultural and legal entity - has a goal of raping and murdering Palestinians.

whereas Hamas goal is to rape and murder Jews and non believers. It is not shy about saying this.

israel has/is doing some awful things. Hamas is far far worse.

for what it’s worth I wouldn’t be surprised if trumps approach ends up having far more in common with Hamas than israel - but towards hamas. Which will be an absolute disaster.

sellotapechicken · 25/03/2025 00:27

Anyadvicewelcome2 · 22/03/2025 12:21

The Palestinians have been living in an open air prison for decades , they are simply trying to obliterate them now.
Also why does no one talk about the Palestinian hostages , how can they have a hostage exchange in the first place ? “Exchange “

I agree with this. It’s Israeli hostages and Palestinian prisoners.. even the 113 (as of dec 2024) children held by Israel

sellotapechicken · 25/03/2025 00:51

Greywhippet · 23/03/2025 14:36

I find it astonishing how many people on here are even still, even now, pulling the ‘quietly complicit in antisemitism’ bullshit every single time someone says that the war on the civilian population of Gaza is a disgusting act of genocide. To be completely clear- being utterly disgusted by the actions of the current Israeli government has absolutely zero to do with being antisemitic and it just won’t wash any more.

100% agree

ImpartialObserver · 25/03/2025 02:03

According to the Parliamentary report by Lord Belgravia, the idea for Oct 7th came about before 2014.

Nine years of planning of the execution of a mass scale attack on the civilians of a country with one of the most high tech and heavily trained armies in the world who Hamas, PIJ, etc knew they could never defeat militarily even in their wildest dreams, but they made absolutely no contingencies or planning for the protection and safety of their civilians living in densely populated areas.

The civilians they apparently were fighting for the safety, equality, better life and freedom of.

The evil regime of the country (Israel) they planned to attack had already subjected them to decades of fear and abuse, barbaric treatment, massacres, indiscriminate bombing, sexual torture, detaining and killing their children, and forced them to live in an open air prison, so they already knew what they were apparently capable of, BUT still no efforts made to protect their civilians.

Beyond comprehension you might say or dangerously stupid?

Hamas and their allies are far from stupid though.

They knew exactly what would happen, they ensured the atrocities they committed were so heinous they could not be ignored and Israel would be forced to retaliate, they deliberately took civilians hostage to use as leverage to release their convicted terrorist comrades AND to use as human shields, they livestreamed their atrocities on SM to humiliate Israel to the world and again ensure retaliation, they prevented civilians from leaving areas they were hiding in and deliberately positioned themselves in civilian areas to ensure maximum civilian casualties (a well documented and long used MO), AND most importantly they NEEDED these civilian deaths to stream the images around the world to orchestrate mass outrage (more than Oct 7th ever would) and hatred of Israel.

I actually think they hoped for more deaths but the IDF’s civilian to combatant death ratio, and protection of civilians, was too low that’s why they’ve had to fake some of which there is plenty of evidence of online.

Has anyone actually stopped and questioned how the ratio of the deaths of women, and especially children, is disproportionately high as opposed to men? I mean how is this even logical if Israel is indiscriminately bombing? Now we are told they aren’t indiscriminately bombing, they’re TARGETING women and children, especially under 5’s.

Which is it?

The marches were obviously orchestrated in advance, who on earth would march in sympathy with terrorists who had just committed one of the worst terrorist attacks in the world though, rip down hostage posters, not even a few weeks grace to respect the horrifically murdered dead.

The whole thing was orchestrated not to win militarily but via SM propaganda, all put in place well before Oct 7th and easily lapped by the useful idiots in the West who may tell themselves they are not antisemitic, but most don’t know the history of the conflict, those who do have cherry picked parts to suit their narrative, don’t question obvious inconsistencies, focus on the evil of Israel while diminishing the terrorist atrocities that have been committed against them for decades, don’t consider why an iron dome was necessary or care about 10s of thousands of rockets fired on them, heck don’t even think they have a right to defend themselves!

There is a big focus though on the difference in the amount of Israeli deaths compared to Palestinians. It’s just not fair that fewer Israelis have been killed, as if this is a legitimate argument!

The Palestinians are ramping up the propaganda now that it has come to a point that the remaining hostages would have to be handed over and they’ll have no further leverage. Israel won’t stop until Hamas is destroyed and that day is getting closer. That’s why there was no Phase 2.

You can see this from the recent reports which have caused the intended further mass outrage and hysterical cries of evil Israel!

I mean is it logical that Israel, a democratic country, a country which literally built itself out of the desert through hard work and innovation, renowned globally for its technological, medical and agricultural expertise, a tiny State surrounded by hostile Arab countries who needs the military support of the West, would deliberately destroy it’s reputation beyond repair, put its citizens at further risk from the surge of global anti semitism, by making an official policy of carrying out mass sexual abuse and torture of the vulnerable Palestinians it had already been oppressing and indiscriminately murdering for years in most of the worlds eyes?

It would be global suicide and I would assume Israel wants to live on after this conflict!

Why would the Palestinians (terrorists and civilians) go to the trouble of kidnapping those hostages, including babies and dead bodies, when they just wanted to hand them back? It has been said on here that they wanted to give them back on Oct 8th as they really just kidnapped them accidentally, but evil Israel refused to take their own kidnapped civilians back!

I have been following this conflict, first out of the shock and disgust of the atrocities of Oct 7th, but then the reaction to it from a human psychology perspective which has been even more shocking, and IMO unprecedented in any conflict situation, that the victim has been vilified and the aggressor (a designated terrorist organisation no less) has literally been given their own stage show, glorified as freedom fighters and removed of practically all accountability.

Mind boggling, and just shows that we believe what we want to believe truth or not, and that Hamas and its backers correctly understand the centuries old ingrained global hatred of Jewish people is much stronger than sense and logic.

Tragically, the Palestinians have been used and abused for generations as pawns to beat and vilify Israel with in a religious war. They have been indoctrinated that the only thing worthy of fighting for is the land, and ALL the land, not their fundamental right to live in peace and safety and create their own future. Their children dying as martyrs is more worthy than living in peace and sharing prosperity with Jews as their neighbours. This conflict was never about land, if it was it would have been resolved 80 years ago.

Let’s not forget Palestinian leaders (going back to Arafat) have made billions out of this conflict. If it were to end, an accountable government and a sustainable economy built, and the aid stopped rolling in, there would be a lot of very unhappy people and organisations. They don’t want that to happen!

The suffering of the Palestinians is a billion $ industry.

The useful idiots in the West who have supported and currently support this abomination have been complicit in their suffering.

Shame on all of them.

I totally believe that if Hamas had not been bolstered and emboldened, under the guise of support for the Palestinians, for the last 18 months, this war would not have carried on for this long.

Anyone who truly cared about the fate of the Palestinian people more than their hatred of Jews, would have focused their support for Gaza on demonising Hamas not Israel.

2024onwardsandup · 25/03/2025 03:39

@ImpartialObserver very interesting post. I find the psychology of the whole situation baffling. It has very much become a purity test virtue signal for people.

one of the things that baffles me is - as we’ve seen in this thread - people will throw in a comment about how of course they don’t condone Hamas - but then continue to throw out rhetoric that only supports hamas - there is just no logical flow from them saying of course Hamas are evil to what they then say next

there is no critical thinking, no notion of complexity, and zero shits given about Jewish people.

i think for lots (basically all) of these people it’s got absolutely nothing to do with the Palestinian people and is rather all about their own social belonging in their social groups. And a lot of that social belonging is about being disenfranchised from power in the UK/the west and that dynamic is just kind of plonked onto this situation.

they are being absolutely played by Islamic fundamentalists who advocate for everything these people supposedly stand against (queers for Palestine anyone) and it baffles me.

PurpleAxe · 25/03/2025 04:01

Here's an idea:

If you don't want your technologically advanced, heavily armed neighbour with whom you share bad blood to level your country and bomb your citizens into oblivion it is probably not a good idea to cross the border, rape, murder, and kidnap a bunch of their citizens?

I mean I am no tactical genius, but even I can figure that out.

Hamas can surrender at any time.

Or Israel will continue, they will smash Gaza to pieces, kill everyone and take the whole place.

That is how this is going to go. Apart from a bunch of excitable blue hairs the rest of the world doesn't give a fuck. The UN is pointless/toothless.

KimberleyClark · 25/03/2025 05:09

2024onwardsandup · 24/03/2025 22:55

@LoyalAquaOtter there are about two million arabs in Israel isn’t there - going about their lives with equal rights?

and no I don’t find Jewish people as a group threatening. I do find hamas, and people marching in support of them, very threatening.

if the idf came to my town for a conference I would not be remotely concerned, and I would not be concerned for any arabs who were here.

if hamas came to my town for a conference I would want the army here immediately. And I’d also be concerned for any Arab’s who were here.

i actually remain very sympathetic to the Palestinian cause - ie actual Palestinians. But the “free Palestine” movement these days has nothing to do with actually supporting Palestinians to have free and happy lives.

LoyalAcquaOtter did not ask you if you found Jewish people threatening, but if you find Jewish extremists threatening. Can you answer that question please?

Twiglets1 · 25/03/2025 06:24

2024onwardsandup · 24/03/2025 23:11

@LoyalAquaOtter did you not watch the hostage release “ceremonies” and think oh my god these people are insane psychopaths!!??

The world did.

Helps to explain something people on this thread & others have expressed bewilderment about - why there has not been the same international response to this conflict as the one in Ukraine.

I am surprised myself there has not been more international outrage to the actions of the Israeli government which have gone way too far. But the answer is Hamas & the fact we do not see enough condemnation about their huge role in all these deaths from Palestinian people/supporters of Palestine.

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