To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

For the people defending Israel's actions here I have one, very simple question.
Why do you not want Israel to save their hostages by obeying international law, ending the occupation of the West Bank and releasing the Palestinian hostages? they could have had all the hostages back 9th Oct.
The West Bank is ruled by the secular PA which fought Hamas out in 2006 and renounced armed resistance to Israel 30 years ago.
Israel could release the hundreds of Palestinian children it's holding hostage (NOT charged with terrorist offences), end the illegal occupation of the West Bank, withdraw the 700,000 illegal settlers, and allow the Palestinians to have a state for the first time in 76 years, and in so doing defeat Hamas from within. That actually is the two-state solution which our govt and the EU and the US supposedly support. Why is Israel not doing this and why are you not calling on it to do so?

rhey don’t wear uniforms when engaged in warfare - they blend into the civilian population - putting the civilian population at greater risk because they don’t give a shit about them

What's your evidence for that? Israeli propaganda? In the early days of the invasion, when reporters were still able to film and get footage out, Hamas men were shown moving about in uniform.

To reiterate, if all of Hamas came down with anthrax tomorrow, I would care a fig.

From the 50,000 dead, at least 25,000 are terrorists.

The UN has verified that 70% of the dead are women and children. Please show me a reliable source backing up your statement.
Also, at the start of the war Hamas was estimated at 30,000. If they've killed all but 5,000 why on earth are they still slaughtering children?

Perhaps Hamas and various other jihadi paramilitary set-ups plus ordinary Gazan men should not have committed genocide on Oct 7th 2023, raping and murdering girls and women (filmed and sent to Telegram and to the women's relatives), burned people to death, shot people in front of their children/parents etc? Maybe should not have paraded the bodies of raped and murdered young women, and young men through Gazan streets to cheers from the crowds who watched the procession? Yes, Gaza is an atrocity - but an entirely avoidable one. Hamas is guilty here (and the death tolls are their figures) as well as Israel. And of the two, Hamas as the instigator carried more guilt. The blood of Israelis and Gazans is on their hands.

Women can be terrorists and a child is anyone under the age of 18 - that is how.
Nevertheless, I weep for the children of Gaza and remember the horror of a little girl asking for her father - who was dead.
But I blame Hamas as much (more than) Israel for this mess.

@Northernlass1234 please could I ask you to read about Rachel Corrie, Tom Hurndall and David Miller (BBC cameraman) all killed by Israel years before Hamas. I would love to know your thoughts.

Also your thoughts on Iman Al-Hams, 13 yr old schoolgirl who an Israeli captain emptied his rifle into in 2005, before Hamas. His own soldiers testified against him but he was fully acquitted (see the Guardian)

It must be physically painful to be this blinkered

Isreal have been building illegal settlements in the West Bank for years. Why would they want that land?

"One time, guards spotted someone approaching from the south. We responded as if it was a large militant raid. We took positions and just opened fire. I'm talking about dozens of bullets, maybe more. For about a minute or two, we just kept shooting at the body. People around me were shooting and laughing."
But the incident didn't end there. "We approached the blood-covered body, photographed it, and took the phone. He was just a boy, maybe 16." An intelligence officer collected the items, and hours later, the fighters learned the boy wasn't a Hamas operative – but just a civilian.
"That evening, our battalion commander congratulated us for killing a terrorist, saying he hoped we'd kill ten more tomorrow," the fighter adds. "When someone pointed out he was unarmed and looked like a civilian, everyone shouted him down. The commander said: 'Anyone crossing the line is a terrorist, no exceptions, no civilians. Everyone's a terrorist.'

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-18/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-expose-arbitrary-killings-and-rampant-lawlessness-in-gazas-netzarim-corridor/00000193-da7f-de86-a9f3-fefff2e50000?lts=1742840165148

Source for your claim please because it completely contradicts the findings of the UN, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Oxfam.

The biggest category of children killed was 5-9 and then 9-14 and then 0-5.
"Women can be terrorists too" lol ah yes Hamas the equal opportunities radical jihadists.

Source please

And no one appears to give a flying fuck about that war. Nor the ongoing horror in the Yemen. Which makes me wonder...why is Israel doing this beyond the pale but similar events elsewhere are not worthy of mention?

In addition to the 15,000+ students spread across 3 countries (figures from 2019 so probably more now), they have a government department dedicated to their digital campaign and a whole branch of the IDF who work as “digital soldiers” pretending to be from different countries. They openly advertise online - it does seem like they go for quantity over quality. It is so obvious because when confronted with facts or information they just parrot back the same arguments and ignore what has been said.

But the Israeli children (including a baby of 9 mths) were killed in cold blood as part of a terrorist attack and they were killed because they were Jews or with Jews. In Gaza Hamas is using women and children (and mind, children are anyone under 18 so can well be terrorists themselves) as human shields. Hamas has tunnels to hide in, the people they are supposedly governing have nowhere safe to go. If you use your people as human shields then their deaths are on you, especially if you started the war.

They did give warnings yes, telling residents they must all head south because it’s safe….then they immediately bombed the south - the very place they told tens of thousands of civilians to flee too. What would you make of that?

We are not bank rolling the genocide in Sudan, nor are we sending weapons to the genocidaires, nor are the war criminals being wined and dined at the white house and dining street.
I care very much about Sudan and Yemen and Congo, not just as a point in an argument unlike you.
But my money is currently going to a recognised genocide that is killing children at the fastest rate since the Rwandan genocide, and I profoundly object.

Any proof of this ?

Maybe hellsbells is putting the age of criminal responsibility at about three years old. That would justify such batshit stats

I remember Tom Hurndall being killed. I do not unequivically support Israel but they have a legal right to exist on land which was part of what had been the Ottoman Empire until 1918 and continued to be inhabited by Jews, Arabs, Druze, various Christian sects until 1947, when the UN earmarked part of what had been historic Palestine (Israel, Judah and Samaria) to be a homeland for the survivors of the Holocaust. The ongoing war against Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, is a fight against the West - the massacres in 2023 took place on the anniversary of the Christian defeat of the Ottomans (Turkey et al) on 7th Oct 1571.
Israel should remove itself from the Golan Heights and the West Bank. There should be a two-state solution and Hamas needs to be destroyed.

I stand corrected.
The IDF say 20,000. The Palestinian Ministry of Health have not given a figure, because they are controlled by Hamas and saying 20,000 terrorists are dead is not ‘on message’.

Hamas are using the Palestinian women and children as human shields, such is their hatred of Jews, and absolute contempt of normal Palestinians.
If Hamas left the populated areas, the civilian deaths would end.

Where does Israels rape, sexual assault and sexual torture of Palestinian women and girls fall into this equation for you?

Strangely I had this same debate about 'children' a few days ago in the context of the Pitchfork murders (we were talking about the poor young girls he had raped and murdered and the way DNA fingerprinting had caught him). A person of 18 is legally a child these days but no 18 year old considers themselves a child, nor indeed does a 15 year old. Many of the children being held by Israel are not 'children', they are adolescents, young people, who have been guilty of throwing stones at soldiers (not that I think Israeli soldiers should be in the West Bank) - throwing stones in the fashion of David killing Goliath i.e. they are using sling-shots, which are lethal weapons. They are intending to kill. Such 'children' would be locked up in any civilised country, not just in Israel.
By Oct 9th around 50 of the hostages taken on Oct 7th were already dead - and the dead women had been raped, in some cases gang-raped, as well - and their bodies had been displayed in Gaza and the people of Gaza (or at least the men) had cheered and celebrated those deaths.
Three hostages, a woman and her two small children, were killed by Hamas after they had been taken hostage - either cold-bloodedly murdered or kept in the tunnels Hamas have everywhere and used as human shields against Israel.
I don't think treating with rapists and child-murderers is something it is possible to do and I doubt Israel would have got back its hostages whoever had interceded with Hamas - Hamas hates Jews and its mission is to kill them, preferably as agonisingly and as brutally as possible. You might like to watch the film 'We Will Dance Again' which describes, with videos filmed at the time, the attack on the Nova Festival. You could also read this: 7th October Parliamentary Commission Report - which investigated the Oct 7th attacks.

Where does Hamas' rape, sexual assault and torture of Israeli women fall into your equation?
Bear in mind the information on attacks on Palestinian women and girls comes from Hamas - not renowned for their truthfulness, but certainly great at propaganda - they filmed themselves raping Jewish women and girls and put the pictures out on social media, so we have objective evidence of those acts of barbarity.

It doesn’t. It’s not Israel’s crimes, it’s individuals crimes. If anything is proved, they should be imprisoned. It seems there is plenty of evidence.

I’ve yet to see IDF soldiers dragging the naked dead body of a recently raped and murdered young women behind a motorbike through a village while crowds cheer. Or did I miss that?