To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

@SinnerBoy rhey don’t wear uniforms when engaged in warfare - they blend into the civilian population - putting the civilian population at greater risk because they don’t give a shit about them

Really? Fairly sure I've seen a few Israeli tanks and missiles there in the last year or two...

Since October 7th 2023 wasn't it??

@2024onwardsandup @Twiglets1 Israel didn't leave Gaza in 2005 it pulled its settlers and army out and then applied a total siege by land, sea and air - "de facto occupation" as per the UN. Fishermen couldn't go more than 6km from shore and many were shot and killed by Israeli gunboats within the 6km. Import, export, trade was completely impossible. Getting concrete or building supplies, medicines, impossible. Read OCHA effects of Gaza blockade. Taking about provoking wars.

You are unbelievably naive it's actually scary. The world has woken up to the lies of Israel
It doesn't care about the hostages it never has
It wants the LAND and it will exterminate every single man woman and child as it is doing
But we see it
We can't stop it but it is sickening and we won't forget

Some of these posts are just ridiculous- why would Israel want the land when it was Hamas that invaded Israel 🤦‍♀️!

Hamas could have ended this war years ago if they released the hostages!

The killing has to stop - but Hamas are imbedded in the population and hide in plain site. They don’t distinguish themselves so Israel can’t avoid it 😢

Oh go back to sleep love. As if ‘terrorism’ is Israel agenda here.

Trump/America main sponsor of Israel has blatantly said they want to take over the land and build a resort. You’ve got IDF dancing at kids getting killed. They control the media and shadow ban anyone who supports the Palestinians. Yet you still believe they have a legitimate agenda.

WAKE UP!

Unfortunately, that’s what happens in a modern war. Civilians suffer because of the actions of their governments. That's why Hamas should not, if they cared about their civilian population, have deliberately provoked Israel into a war.

So you are saying Israel don't know where Hamas are they just bomb indiscriminately and cross their fingers that they get someone from Hamas?

I'm glad you put the crying face emoji there though or people would think that you don't think that that's a horrific thing to do.

Don’t be ridiculous. I was stating a fact which is indisputable. Innocent children die in every war. That is terrible and shocking.

I note you have not answered any of the points I made.

However, I am only too happy not to engage with you again.

they don’t just bomb indiscriminately- i thought they give the residents warnings! As i say Hamas could just give up the hostages! And then the war would stop no?

It did not withdraw the illegal occupation and settlements in all the Palestinian territories though did it? It's also had Gaza under siege since retaining all control of the sea and airspace. All invalidating the argument of self defense and making talk of consequences of war mute as the people they are attacking they are occupying

"why would Israel want the land?"
A significant portion of the Israeli population want a greater Israel - all of historic Palestine plus Lebanon and bit of Syria. Netanyahu held a map up at the UN in 2022 with the whole of historic Palestine including Gaza and the West Bank labelled as Israel. Netanyahu* is in a political alliance with rightwing religious nutjob parties who openly call for the formation of Greater Israel* (including Ben Gvir who plotted to attack Israeli troops for withdrawing from Gaza. Let that sink in).
Israel occupied Gaza until 2005 and then continued a de facto occupation by blockading them completely by land, sea and air, nothing in or out no trade. See OCHA and the UN reports on it.
Israel is occupying the West Bank and incentivising its people to go out and live on stolen land in the West Bank - 700,000 illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank. The West Bank is ruled by the secular PA. Why is Israel still occupying it and why is it encouraging its citizens to build fortified exclusive Jewish-only compounds? Why is the Israeli army supporting the settlers as they terrorise Palestinian farmers and kill their livestock? All documented by UN, Amnesty, HRW B'Tselem etc for decades before Hamas/Oct. 7th.
Honestly "why would Israel want the land" is either the most ill-informed or the most disingenuous statement about the war.

Given the Israeli government already confirmed months ago the assault on Gaza wouldn't stop of all the hostages were returned - no it wouldn't!

"Warning" patients hooked up to IV machines and incubators that they need to leave when they're incapable of doing so and then bombing the hospital they're in is indiscriminate. "Warning" people you're going to bomb and area when you there are no spaces for people to retreat to is also indiscriminate. Targeted military attacks are more than possible for a military as advances as Israel's, there is no justification for their bombing tactics in Gaza.

Speaking of warnings, it's funny how the IDF still manages to bomb aid workers when they've warned Israel exactly which roads they'll be on at X date and Time isn't it?

If that's Israels plan then why didn't they move onto the 2nd phase of the ceasefire that would have seen all of the hostages home by now and the war stopped instead of bombing children in their beds? Seems like a strange thing for Israel to do.

Do you think people get warnings that their children are going to be blown up but just decide to leave them to sleep instead of evacuating them? Does that make sense to you?

The largest category of deaths are children aged between 5 and 9. Too big to be carried fast and too small to run fast 💔I'm sure you'd agree children of that age cannot be Hamas.

Then maybe Hamas shouldn’t built tunnels to store weapon gain hospitals!!! How is that Israel’s fault?

it is disappointing that they didn’t move to the second phase but i can’t believe Hamas will just give up the hostages or they have nothing to negotiate with!

What seems to be absent from much of this thread is that Hamas are - and are supported by - radical Islamic fundamentalists who are psychopathic

the current conflict is being viewed through a historical lens that no longer reflects the current actual dynamics and issues

Make up your mind, darling. Did you want people to "go back to sleep" or to "WAKE UP"?

I agree Trump is vile, but that's not the point.

If the hostages are, in your opinion, no longer any use as bargaining chips (the only reason kidnappers normally abduct people), why do you suppose Hamas don’t just set them free?

This is false. The NGOs have proven that they either don't warn at all or warn seconds before flattening an entire residential tower so people can't get out in time. 2000lb 'dumb' bombs are indiscriminate by nature that's why they've not been used since WWII. The Israelis have repeatedly bombed MSF ambulances and clinics (who the hell bombs MSF?), they targeted and bombed two World Kitchen cars one after the other full of foreign aid workers including a British army vet - AFTER they had given permission to those cars to travel that route. Look it up. Israel bombed the Palestinian ambulance that it authorised to go and save 6-yr-old Hind Rajab, just metres from her car, killing both paramedics. Then they fired 355 bullets into her little body. Look it up.

Do you know what is absent from this thread? Condemnation of Israels rape, sexual assault and sexual torture of Palestinian women and girls. Still pages later not a single person who agrees with Israel blowing up Gaza has expressed any disgust with this, they haven't even acknowledged it.

This is a current issue, how do you propose Israel are stopped from doing this @2024onwardsandup

@Northernlass1234 from Amnesty on October 30th 2023:
As Israeli forces continue to intensify their cataclysmic assault on the occupied Gaza Strip, Amnesty International has documented unlawful Israeli attacks, including indiscriminate attacks, which caused mass civilian casualties and must be investigated as war crimes.
The organization spoke to survivors and eyewitnesses, analysed satellite imagery, and verified photos and videos to investigate air bombardments carried out by Israeli forces between 7 and 12 October, which caused horrific destruction, and in some cases wiped out entire families.* Here the organization presents an in-depth analysis of its findings in five of these unlawful attacks. In each of these cases, Israeli attacks violated international humanitarian law, including by failing to take feasible precautions to spare civilians, or by carrying out indiscriminate attacks that failed to distinguish between civilians and military objectives*, or by carrying out attacks that may have been directed against civilian objects.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/damning-evidence-of-war-crimes-as-israeli-attacks-wipe-out-entire-families-in-gaza/

Why would Israel want the land?

why is it allowing settlers and approving more settlements in land that doesn’t belong to Israel?

Amnesty again: "Using bulldozers and manually-laid explosives, the Israeli military has unlawfully destroyed agricultural land and civilian buildings, razing entire neighbourhoods - including homes, schools and mosques." Bulldozers and explosives to destroy schools is not collateral is it, that's deliberate.

www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/gaza-israel-must-be-investigated-war-crime-wanton-destruction-new-investigation

@Northernlass1234 Israel is committing genocide as per the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. These are legal facts, not just my opinion Vs your opinion.

For all those saying "this is war" no, 2000lb bombs are not part of war since WW2. Israel has the tech to take out a single flat in a whole building but is choosing to flatten entire multi-storey residential buildings. Bombing foreign aid workers and ambulances is not war. Shooting children in the head and chest is not war (Google Dr. Mark Perlmutter Gaza)

www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/