To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

Just like all the 16 and 17 year old Brits and Americans who fly to Israel to join the IDF for a year during their gap years. Should they be shot too?

@Greywhippet is thst serious? I mean - Hamas don’t wear uniforms in breach of international law - but they are the military force of Gaza

Calling this a ‘war’ is telling in itself. Where is the opposing army?

That would be Hamas. You can spot them in their uniforms, heavily armed, during hostage handovers.
One senior member less as of yesterday, tbf, when Salah al-Bardawil was taken out.
Hamas might want you to believe that every death is that of a civilian, but it isn't true.

Totally serious. They are not an opposing army. Throwing rhetorical questions around won’t change that. Palestine does not have an army.

‘Taken out’ - your language is so macho.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation

Indeed. They also control Gaza. They are the opposing force Israel is at war with in Gaza.

Would you use the same weird logic about Isis?

Please do tell what sovereign state are they the "army" of?

Please do tell what sovereign state are they the "army" of?

Do you think that we're only allowed wars with official armies of sovereign states?

International law isn't "weird logic". Does the UK or USA illegally occupy a country ISIS is in?

If we're claiming self defense then yeah, you can't legally claim that against a people.youre illegally occupying and have been court ordered to leave.

HTH

International law isn't "weird logic". Does the UK or USA illegally occupy a country is in?

Israel withdrew from Gaza twenty years ago. And before I'm told for the billionth time about controlling their borders, 7 October illustrates why. Internally, Hamas run Gaza.

If we're claiming self defense then yeah, you can't legally claim that against a people.youre illegally occupying and have been court ordered to leave.

You mean like Israel did in 2005? They're considered "occupying" because of their extremely tight control of the borders. Which, as it turns out, is necessary to stop mass terrorist attacks.

They still needed to have withdrawn from the Palestinian territories and dismantle the settlements in order to claim self defense against a people they're illegally occupying

Seriously? Do you know anything at all about Palestine? Clearly not if you think the occupation ended 🤔

The death toll as a result of the Israeli bombardment of Gaza is now estimated at over 50,000, 50 times the number killed by Hamas et al on 7/10. Estimates of the number of children dead are in excess of 15,000. It is impossible to know how many are buried beneath the rubble.

The Hamas action on 7 October was truly appalling, as are all terrorist actions, but the ordinary people of Gaza, most of whom are not Hamas or Hamas supporters, have paid a very high price. The Israeli government's response is totally disproportionate, and the UN Special Committee have accepted that it is a genocide.

Two wrongs don't make a right, never have, and never will.

The death toll as a result of the Israeli bombardment of Gaza is now estimated at over 50,000, 50 times the number killed by Hamas et al on 7/10. Estimates of the number of children dead are in excess of 15,000. It is impossible to know how many are buried beneath the rubble.

Assuming the figures are accurate, and as upsetting as they are, it's not relevant. The civilian death toll in Germany was many orders of magnitude higher than that of the UK in the second world war, for instance.

They still needed to have withdrawn from the Palestinian territories and dismantle the settlements in order to claim self defense against a people they're illegally occupying

Different issue. What's happening in the West Bank doesn't give Hamas carte blanche to attack, murder and kidnap Israeli citizens consequence free.

Out of curiosity what do you think should be the consequences for Israels activities in the West Bank?

You've made it clear that you support the 'consequences' Israel have doled out in Gaza. Would you support similar happening in Israel and state that the figures of innocent Israelis killed is 'not relevant?

Bearing in mind that there are 4 violent Israeli settler attacks on Palestinians everyday in the West Bank, there are villages burnt to ground, people killed, Palestinian women and girls are raped and sexually assaulted at checkpoints. What 'consequences' would you support for these awful actions by Israel? How many dead Israeli children would you call 'not relevant'?

@LakieLady its not about “two wrongs making a right” - it’s about what happens now that Hamas (supported by other raidicla Islamic psychopaths in the middle east) have made it very clear what they want to do to Israel. They don’t want a peaceful two state solution - they want to kill all the Jews. And they have zero concern about protecting other gazans. It simply can’t go back to where it was planned when Israel left Gaza in 2005. Hamas have to be disempowered.

Wow you really are here just justifying genocide. This thread has blown my mind.

Right and Israel have made it clear that they don't want a two state solution, they want to 'reopen the gates of hell' in Gaza, they are actively preventing people there from having access to food and aid, they have been open about their wish to ethnically cleanse and they are well on their way to taking over the West Bank. Palestinians are being burnt alive, raped and tortured by these maniacs. And you appear to be clapping them on not looking for them to be 'disempowered' too? Why?

I didn't say it does? What it does do is invalidate Israels claim of self defense when they're indiscriminately killing Palestinian people and for PP to justify these deaths as a cost of "war". You can't go to war against people you're illegally occupying.
HTH

Why are you equating the two situations? Explain how on earth they're similar.

So a death toll of 50,000, most of whom were women and children is "not relevant". Imagine your kids were among the dead, would you be happy for their deaths to be dismissed as "not relevant".
Out of interest how many women and children have to die in Gaza for you to consider them to be relevant?

@LoyalAquaOtter how do you think that Israel can stop Hamas from doing what it did on October 7 again?