To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

This only works if you believe that Israel are actually doing all this for the hostages and to bring hamas out of power. I’m more cynical and believe that it is an excuse to commit genocide and claim the land they believe is theirs. If Hamas gave back all the hostages I genuinely believe Israel would find some excuse to keep bombing. They’ve tested the waters and the world is turning a blind eye. They’ve already been found to be committing genocide and yet they keep going.

Evidence, for any of that. Evidence please. And by evidence I do not mean an Israeli captain pointing in horror at a calender on a wall with a "list of terrorist names in Arabic!!!" which were actually - Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thurs Fri, in Arabic. Nor an Israeli captain showing off 3 pristine machine guns in a pristine grab bag in an MRI ROOM (y'know the one with the big fucking magnet) which had no bullet holes anywhere, no sign of a desperate gun battle, nothing. I mean seriously pull the other one. As for the tunnels - Ehud Barak told CNN a lot of them were built by Israel in 1970s when it controlled the strip. It's on YouTube.
Meanwhile many foreign doctors and nurses have been in out and all around the hospitals and not seen any militant bases.

We are talking about the mass slaughter of children for God's sake and there are people-probably mothers- who just don't care in fact seem to revel in it
Absolutely shocking and disgusting

Perhaps Israel could agree to let reporters into Gaza then.

@ThisNattyTurtle has already condemned the attacks of 7th October, I have just read the post.

Israel do not have the right in international law to carpet bomb civilians.
It is not anti-Semitic to call this out.

As for being given options to leave, where are they supposed to go, what resources do you think they have? They are trapped, not allowed to leave Gaza, and have been told by Israel repeatedly to move from one end of Gaza to the other at short notice, to places where there is no shelter, food or water. Israel are pretty much playing shooting fish in a barrel with the civilian population.

Your moral and human values are pretty selective and tribalistic it seems if you can continually seek to justify and defend the murder of children just because of who they are and where they were born. If you value the lives of some people over others. If you don’t accept international law and the bodies that uphold it

This is a lie and you know it. The problem does not go away if Hamas is removed. Look at the West Bank.
(and I am no supporter of Hamas)

But they repeatedly assert that it is so it continues. This narrative is repeated continuously, ad infinitum and so the tyranny goes on, ad infinitum.

Hamas also seem to be remarkably effective in assisting Israel's destruction of Gaza. It would be a strange thing to suggest, but it's almost as though this has all been orchestrated.

Don’t be ridiculous.

Then by your reckoning Hamas have nothing to lose by returning the hostages. So why don’t they?

The death of innocent children is always shocking and disgusting. But it is what happens in a war. That’s why the leaders of a country shouldn’t deliberately provoke wars, especially when they know their civilian population, consisting disproportionately of women and children, will be the ones to suffer. But Hamas leaders are on record as saying they welcome the "necessary sacrifice"! Are you shocked and disgusted at them?

And were you also shocked and disgusted by the abduction from their homes of civilians of all ages and their imprisonment as bargaining chips for their kidnappers? Were you shocked and disgusted at the sickening shows put on for the release of a few of them, with masked terrorists strutting around with guns and deliberately humiliating the hostages? Are you shocked and disgusted that some of the civilians abducted are still being kept prisoner? Or perhaps you approve of, or at least don’t object to, kidnappers being rewarded and encouraged by the desperate families pushing for negotiations.

Did you express your horror and disgust at all this? If not, why not?

Do please clarify who you are kindly recommending to "please drown in a sewer, the fucking lot of yous".

Of course it won't end if the hostages are released, if Israel were planning on stopping when the hostages are released they would have moved onto phase 2 of the ceasefire and had all of the hostages home by now. They didn't. The fact they haven't moved onto phase 2 proves that it isn't just about getting them home. I don't know how that could be clearer?

I repeat: Then by your reckoning Hamas have nothing to lose by returning the hostages. So why don’t they?

Because they are terrorists and the hostages are their only leverage? Without the hostages most of Israel won't care if the government bombs Gaza to smithereens so with no agreement in place letting them go would be signing their death warrants.

The fact that you say ‘the death of innocent children… but’ means that you are simply not worth engaging with. There is no but.

The fact that you say ‘the death of innocent children… but’ means that you are simply not worth engaging with. There is no but.

By that logic, we should never have dropped a single bomb on Germany.

Wars cost innocent lives, which is why they should be avoided if at all possible, not provoked.

The thing I find interesting about this thread and the responses to articles about Israeli war crimes by any major newspaper is the number of online accounts that come along and defend Israel using the same script - ie ignoring facts and figures and saying Hamas made them up and just blaming all deaths on Hamas (like they’re the ones controlling Israel’s military). Investigations have revealed that Israel pay thousands of Israeli University students to go online to defend and promote Israel and they do get a script. They utilise all the methods politicians use to manipulate public opinion - Deny, Deflect the blame, Attack the opposition/victims. If you are posting to this board from inside Israel and have been given a script just know this, history will judge you for being complicit in genocide.

Interestingly there are no Mumsnet users from inside Gaza sitting at a thousand keyboards because they have limited electricity and wifi and have been cut off from most recourses that we take for granted.

Oh for goodness sake, perhaps do the briefest of Google searches on the legalities of war and you'll see how shortsighted your whole post is. Israel has no legal right to use war as self defense in this instance like any other state attacked by another sovereign state so you don't get to be so blase about the illegal slaughter of children.

Because it’s literally the only thing they’ve got to bargain with? I don’t get why you’re defending genocide? There are hostages on both sides….

Calling this a ‘war’ is telling in itself. Where is the opposing army?

It’s also embarrassing how crap the arguments are if it’s true that educated people are behind them.