To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

That doesn’t make them correct.

Hammas need to go.
They hand over a few hostages and get hundreds in return and they are training an entire population to hate their neighbours.

I belive before the attack things were going quite well and many Palestinians were allowed to peacefully go into isreal to work.
I believe most people do want peace.

I actually believe Israel should have gone about the retaliation in a very different way at least to start with.
But here we are

It's hammas who is the fly in the ointment and they are paralysing and strangling an entire country.
Imagine if the area was cleared and people allowed back in if they could prove no willing affiliation to hammas and they just lived peacefully and everyone helped to get them back on track with all sorts.
But what would hammas do they would be out of a job because their current job brings money and control and power.
Egypt and Jordan don't want these scum bags.

Here, a photo from the London protest on the 19th. I am pretty sure the stop the war coalition have used this before.
https://www.anews.com.tr/europe/2025/03/19/protesters-in-london-call-on-govt-to-stop-arming-israel-amid-renewed-attacks

It’s not very likely that the highest court in the world who is expert on apartheid would be incorrect is it though?
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/19/world-court-finds-israel-responsible-apartheid

So you’re OK with a country that oppresses 50% of its population being the Chair of the Human Rights Committee?

Saying "well, it was their turn!" is a ridiculous defence, tantamount to admitting that the way the UN operates is all about politics and nothing to do with moral or human values.

Did the US say release them all or just their own recently?

I didn’t say none of the marchers had placards like that, because I knew a few did. I said most of them didn’t, because they didn't.

Too far behind to reply individually so going to address what I can in sections.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty, and Human Rights Watch. Also Raz Segal, Jewish American Prof. of Holocaust and Genocide studies, Prof. Amos Goldberg and Prof. Omer Bartov both Israeli profs of Holocaust and genocide studies. Also Jewish war journalist Peter Maass, Jewish-American Dr. Mark Perlmutter who was in Gaza.
This is not 'my opinion' or 'anti-Semitism' this is evidence-based legal conclusions. If you have some legal counter-argument based on evidence please bring it.
I want the UK govt to stop supplying my money and weapons to a genocide. The UK govt along with the US and other EU govts threatened the ICJ prosecutor Karim Khan if he didn't withdraw the war criminal case against Netanyahu. If it's not a genocide why act like thugs, why not allow the ICJ to investigate and prove that our ally is not a war criminal?
Amnesty video on why this is a genocide:

It's disgusting. I heard testimony of a teenage girl who was stopped at a checkpoint in the West Bank. What happened to her at the hands of the IDF is nothing short of barbaric. I won't go into the details because I don't want to upset people but she was just a teenage girl trying to go about her day and she was brutalised by Israeli soldiers. There is not even an acknowledgement by the 'Hamas are to blame for everything' people of what the IDF are putting Palestinian women and girls through.

Again, it's disgusting. Posting on here after those posts about how Palestinians just want to tear Israelis apart while Israelis are making daisy chains and praying for peace. Talking about how awful it is for Israelis to live beside Palestinians and Israelis have no choice but have these checkpoints and treat Palestinians like second class citizens while the IDF are taking Palestinian teenage girls from these checkpoints and brutally raping them. It turns my stomach.

Israel is an apartheid state according to: the UN, ICJ, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem, Yesh Din, Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu. So again this is not my opinion this is evidence-based fact.
HRW identifies the 'mildest' apartheid as that practiced against the 20% Arab citizens of Israel: there are official govt policies that inhibit land ownership amongst Arabs. There are also Jewish-only compounds, totally legal to exclude Arabs (link below).

In the West Bank there are highways exclusively for illegal Israeli settlers, Palestinians have to drive long ways round. Checkpoints are everywhere and can take 20 min to 24hrs depending on the Israeli soldiers' mood. Palestinian ambulances are routinely held up by Israeli soldiers at checkpoints for hours (not being searched, the soldiers just like fucking with them) and many Palestinians have died waiting at checkpoints, many women in labour forced to give birth (see Gideon Levy reporting on this, UN linked below from 2019).
www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-186867/

Israeli soldiers routinely destroy water butts and wells and Israel has made it illegal for Palestinians to collect rainwater (I only wish I was fucking kidding)
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/

(Fun fact, HRW was led by Jewish-American lawyer Phillip Roth at the time of the report into Israel's apartheid). He nearly lost a position at Harvard because of it.)

Israel is an apartheid state part 2.
Israel actively incentives citizens to go out and live on what is supposed to be Palestinian land under international law/ in the 2-state solution all our govts supposedly support. These are the settlers, 700,000 of them, which Israel refuses to withdraw in any peace negotiations.
They regularly attack Palestinian farms, poisoning or stealing livestock, homes and property (see B'Tselem videos on YouTube, Amnesty, UN). The Israeli army protects them and arrests any Palestinian who shouts or throws a punch in defence. Israeli settlers fire-bombed a house in a village burning 18-mth-old Ali Dawabsheh alive. Some of these nutjobs stab photos of the murdered toddler during wedding celebrations, again I shit you not see link.
Settler violence UN
www.un.org/unispal/document/human-rights-council-hears-that-700000-israeli-settlers-are-living-illegally-in-the-occupied-west-bank-meeting-summary-excerpts/

Israel is an apartheid state part 3.
I mean there is sooo much to say but last example. Palestinian children in al-Tuba in the West Bank (supposed to be Palestinian state!) have to walk to school in a neighbouring village. They were regularly attacked/ stoned by illegal Israeli settlers nearby. The Israeli court finally ordered they have an army escort (no arrest of any settlers of course). I walked that route with them, they talked about how some of the soldiers are decent and walk beside them, but some of them drive off ahead in their jeep and ignore the settlers who gather to taunt/stone/ grab at the walking children. Shortly after I was there another foreign observer was badly beaten by these settlers.

So those Israelis saying 'oh it's not apartheid it's just territorial disputes', 'oh we're just playing really' - I'm sorry but you must be deliberately closing your eyes to this. I mean really strong "oh but the blacks prefer it separate" a la Jim Crow/ S. African apartheid vibes there.

And I mean let's not even get into Hebron which is like apartheid on steroids
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Wq1OI8g23U8

s (the third link is to AlJazeera documentary, you can contest the source but you can verify everything single thing in it via Breaking the Silence and B'tselem Israeli NGOs)

Israel kidnaps 700 children/year and other civilians from the West Bank ie it holds hostages, and regularly abuses them including sexual abuse.
NO, NOT teenage terrorists as people keep saying, wilfully ignoring the evidence. 700 12-16 yr-olds per year, dragged from their beds in the night, put through military court with 98% conviction rate (Israel the only country to try kids in military court), then held in military jails with no parental/legal visits.
Most common charge = throwing stones (10-20 years). Next biggest group are those held indefinitely on administrative detention without charge or trial. Israel had 400 such child hostages in Sept. 2023. (Sources: B'Tselem, Save the Children Child Prisoners Israel 2019, UNICEF child detainees OPT 2013).
Here are the stories of just a few of those held.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/06/israel-opt-palestinian-prisoner-arrested-as-a-child-ahmad-manasra-still-in-prison-despite-worsening-mental-health/
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/files/2018-06/Children%20-%20Israel.pdf?VersionId=OlqfVwk2Q770TjgnHAtpllqKScwEf1P3
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/13/shhh-or-ill-shoot-you-family-of-jailed-christian-woman-tell-of-israeli-raid
https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/7780/2018/en/

Sexual abuse of child hostages by Israel:
John Paul US state dept recounts credible report rape of 15yr by Israeli soldiers
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/lKYd6NhhLms

Tumbleweed to your post.

Because there is no justification ever for military soldiers to do to that girl what they did.

It was not because of Hamas.
It was not because of the hostages.

It was just evil.

Israel kills unarmed Palestinian children with impunity outside of armed conflict and before the Gaza war.
32 killed Jan-Sept. 2023. 34 killed 2022 (and so on for years before). For reference 37 Israeli children unforgivably killed 7th Oct. 2023.
2005 (pre-Hamas) an Israeli captain emptied his rifle into a 13 year old schoolgirl. His own soldiers testified it was obvious she was unarmed and no threat - he was fully acquitted. Iman al-Hams was the girl's name, 2nd link below. So it's not just a few bad eggs - it's violent racism up to the top.
Of course Israel also kills international observers with impunity - see Tom Hurndall, Rachel Corrie, and BBC cameraman David Miller all before Hamas.
https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/2022/2022-becomes-the-deadliest-year-for-palestinian-children-in-the-west-bank-
www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2

"It's all Hamas' fault, if only Palestinians get rid of Hamas" the secular Palestinian authority fought Hamas out of the West Bank 2006, the PA also renounced all armed resistance to Israel 1993. The result? 700,000 illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank, killing of Palestinian children, kidnapping of Palestinian children and civilians (all amply explained and sourced above).

"what else could Israel do??" well at the least not use 2000lb dumb bombs to flatten entire residential buildings, hospitals, schools, etc. Not detain and torture healthcare workers and kill more journalists than any other conflict. But even better yet, it could obey international law and end the occupation of the West Bank, withdraw the illegal settlements, release the child and civilian hostages, and allow the PA to create a state in the West Bank (22% of historic Palestine). That would have got the Israeli hostages released 9th Oct, and completely obliterated Hamas' raison d'etre and any support for it.

"what about?? whatabout all these other conflicts why don't you talk about them??"
BECAUSE.WE. ARE.NOT.ARMING.OR.SUPPORTING.THOSE.OTHER.GENOCIDES.
We ARE arming and supporting and paying for Israel to commit genocide. A genocide with the highest rate of child slaughter since the Rwandan genocide. I don't want my taxes paying for bombs to be dropped on little children. That's it.

Of course there is tumbleweed, there always is when you mentions the sex crimes of the IDF. It's not like it hasn't been known about for a long time. People still defend children being sent to administrative detention even though they know that many children sent there are sexually assaulted by the IDF.

I can only conclude that they just don't care, there is no other reason that posts mentioning the IDFs sex crimes are continually ignored by every single one of the posters who advocate for Israel. Its no wonder Israel does nothing about this culture amongst their soldiers, they monitor social media, they know people will still support them even though they have child rapists in their ranks.

Choughinthemist · Yesterday 09:08

What do you think about child soldiers? What do you think of the fact that Hamas knows how many children are killed 20 minutes after an event such as a bomb?

What do YOU think about bullshit propaganda?

What do you think about ceasefire, which mean that Hamas (please drown in a sewer, the fucking lot of yous) stop shooting, but Israel carries on with artillery strikes and plane bombardments - evert day of the "ceasefire "?

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-bombs-gazas-nasser-hospital-again-killing-patients

Every single hospital in Gaza bombed and burned.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AQV6s0tASGI&pp=ygUZSSdtIGpld2lzaCBpIHdlbnQgdG8gZ2F6YQ%3D%3D

@ThisNattyTurtle “Every single hospital in Gaza bombed and burned.”

Every single hospital in Gaza bombed due to the Hamas terrorists using them as bases.
Remove Hamas and the problem goes away.

Well, no. Every hospital in Gaza has been bombed because it's a part of Israeli strategy to make it unlivable, the same reason that they bombed other protected targets, such as churches and water treatment plants.

Even the Americans were saying that there was no evidence for targetting them. I mean the CIA.

It's what they do, just their standard MO for killing hundreds of unarmed civilians in tent encampments. It's all part of their long term ethnic cleansing and land grabbing.