To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

Did they? Im not the one pretending that Palestinians are savages who have done nothing to improve their lives and only want to kill Israelis ignoring the vast amount of healthcare facilities, schools, universities, infrastructure that has had to be built over and over again because Israel has an instinutuonalised system of targeting Palestinian infrastructure and have caused billions worth of damage over the years.

To be fair the hypocrisy and double standards on this thread is outstanding.

Palestinians hate . Israelis don't.
Poster gives lots examples this is untrue.
Silence.

Israel only kill civilians in wartime bombing.Hamas went into people's houses
Poster shows children being shot at home.
Silence.

I'll continue to call it whataboutery.

Who said or even implied "Palestinians are savages"? Not me. Straw man.

You can continue to call it what you like. I’ll continue to call it hypocrisy and double standards.

Yet you still make no mention, I note, of the point in question: my agreement with the quote "criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic", and my linked point about the apparent lack of concern among many about terrible events in other countries.

Now that really is whataboutery.

This was intended for @LoyalAquaOtter

See pics.

And these protests have been on the same scale as those about Palestine, and supported by all those worried about Palestinians, have they? I must have missed that.

You must have missed it alright.

But over 20% of Israelis are Arabs, with voting rights, so your post doesn’t make sense. (Very different situation in Arab countries, of course, where nearly all Jews - including those whose families had lived there for hundreds of years - have been driven out. But of course I don’t suppose you’re bothered about that.)

Ho ho ho.

I am so angry and upset that that poster who goaded the OP and others into posting evidence and horrific details of sexual abuse by the IDF didn't even have the decency to respond. Genuinely disgusting behaviour.

You’re right I misspoke when I said there are no Jews in the West Bank - I actually meant to say Ramallah . Of course, the settlers are there. And for the record, I don’t support the settlement movement, I never have and I believe they should leave. The land was partitioned, and that should be respected.

But let’s talk about what you called “gross.”

I’ve worked and lived in the region. I’ve seen Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank working peacefully in Israel. But let’s also be honest: if I, as a Jew, walked into Ramallah today, I’d likely be torn apart. That’s not dramatic that’s what’s happening on the ground.

So when you accuse me of dehumanising people , check your own bias first.
My posts come from personal experience, not echo chambers. And if they challenge your narrative, that doesn’t make them “gross” it just means they’re my truth from personal experience.

Except it’s not true that Amnesty is selective in condemning human rights abuses. And it has not stayed silent. But it rightly named apartheid. And that’s why you would like to silence and diminish it

Arab citizens of Israel make up around 20% of the population. They vote in elections, serve in the Knesset, work in hospitals, universities, courts, and even the military. There are Arab judges, doctors, professors, news anchors, and diplomats. Mixed cities exist. Arab students attend Israeli universities. Arabic is an official language.

That’s not apartheid.

so i think you are referring to the Palestinians under military control in WB, who have limited movement- and yes it’s an untenable situation. But is due to an unresolved conflict not a system designed to permanently subjugate a racial group living within one country’s borders. It’s more like a tragic and bitter territorial standoff with fault on both sides than a copy-paste of apartheid.
So yes, there are real issues But calling it apartheid is hyperbole and a distortion.

Except that that is what many have called it.

So Hamas should have done what you think they should have done, instead of doing what the ceasefire agreement approved by Israel called for them to do?

That’s an opinion, not a fact. It is also an opinion that flies in the face of the international laws of armed conflict as explained by legal experts.

If for arguments sake we say that there was a ceasefire on Oct 7th (there wasn’t) and only allow a like for like comparison of children killed by armed combatants during official ceasefires under your terms:

then we have 24 Israeli children killed on Oct 7th compared to
19 Jan-17 March 58 Palestinian children killed in Gaza while the ceasefire endured plus another 186 children killed in early hours of 18 March in airstrikes which shattered the ceasefire.

So that is 24 vs 244

or over 10 Palestinian children for every Israeli child
( not even considering that this is 244 children from a population of 2.3m vs 24 children from a population of 9.4m and after dismissing over 17,000 other Palestinian children killed as mere “collateral” )

So what conclusion do you wish to draw from this?

Note: this sort of quibbling over the dead bodies of children is disgusting to me but you’re the one who started it by claiming that children killed during a ceasefire are somehow worth more than children killed as “collateral damage”. I also disagree completely that 17,000+ children can be legally and ethically considered to be proportionate collateral damage for any military objective or action.

The ICJ disagrees with your uninformed and unqualified opinion.

I bet they respect their opinions when it comes to Russia and Iran though. 🧐

They didn’t. There is a UN human rights committee where every country has a representative attend, the chair of this committee is rotated every few months and it was simply Iran’s turn.

They don’t have the right to destroy Hamas by any means while trapping a civilian population in with Hamas. They also don’t have the right to shoot women and children on sight
“Itamar Ben-Gvir, who was this week reappointed to the Netanyahu government as police minister, has publicly defendedthe army’s “open-fire” directive declaring: “We cannot have women and children getting close to the border … anyone who gets near must get a bullet in the head.” In January, MP and deputy speaker of the Knesset, Nissim Vaturi, said every child born in Gaza is . https://theconversation.com/israels-war-on-gaza-is-deliberately-targeting-children-new-un-report-252398

Therein lie the war crimes.

Our government is acting to stop those atrocities, instead of aiding and abetting them so there is no need to protest to the government…hth

If the marchers, or even most of them, held placards saying things like "Stop arming Israel" or "Stop supporting Israel", that would be a good point. But they don’t, so it isn’t. Most of the placards I’ve seen say "Free Palestine". hth

There are stop arming Israel placards in a lot of marches I’ve seen photos of,

They don’t have “Stop supporting Israel” because that is very close to implying Israel shouldn’t exist. I’d consider it sneaky antisemitic myself,