To be a bit upset at what DD said?

[Peachesnocream]

No ex and I have been split for around a year. DS 4 and DD 8 stay at their dads one night per week. When my daughter came home yesterday she said she doesn’t want to leave me anymore so I explained the situation in the best way I could, daddy loves you and wants to see you etc and she said she wished she didn’t have a dad.

This is the way.

I have never been so infuriated reading a MN post before. You should be in Mama Bear mode because your child is miserable and has been miserable for a long time. They're coming home telling you how bad it is and you just keep packing them off every week because you don't really wanna do the court thing.

Put it into perspective, if the shoe was on the other foot he wouldn't give a shiny shite what has been arranged or whether you'd make a fuss, he'd be tearing strips off you and keeping them home regardless.

Get some damn passion for your poor children!!

When my ex tried this one on me, the court ruled that he had to give me the address where my daughter was, because it was in her best interest for me to know.

Listen to what your DD told you, she wishes she didn't have a Dad. That's massive. That's more than being uncomfortable without her home comforts.
Be the Mum that stops the Dad from seeing the DC. Be the Mum that stands up for her DC. There could be a lot more to this. And I can't believe you don't even know where he lives, where your DC are, that's bizarre. Surely that's a safeguarding issue.
Also, if he bothered to take you to court for access, I can't see a judge awarding overnight stays based on what you've told us. He might threaten you to go to court but I bet he won't. He can't even afford beds or a toaster.

Every post you make you are failing your daughter more and more.

You literally have ONE JOB!

PROTECT her.

My children would have been really scared to go and stay somewhere freezing cold with no food and having to sleep on an airbed without a sheet on it, and a girlfriend on the scene too. I would have let him take it to court, OP, but fuck knows what the judge would be like.

I think I'd gather as much information as possible (three holidays - dates, places etc) and how little he provides for his own children. Your poor children shouldn't have to stay somewhere so unwelcoming. I wouldn't have let them go without knowing where they were staying - just the thought of that would have given me a panic attack. I really feel for you. I think he'll shout and yell but in the end won't take you to court.

I would make it the first priority to find out WHY she is begging not to have to go to her dad's, before making any more decisions. It may take several conversations, and she may not be willing or able to tell you, but you have to rule out the possibility that she is being hurt in some way (beyond whatever emotional hurt might by being done long-term by his neglect). Does she seem any different besides saying she doesn't want to go? Does she seem - in general, not just during the conversations about the visits - withdrawn, or angry, or sad, or acting out, or anything unusual for her?

If something's going on, it may not be with her dad (and he may not even know about it) but another reason she wants to avoid that whole area of her life (which she'd be able to if she "didn't have a dad") - something going on with someone in her dad's neighbourhood, someone who has access to his building/flat, someone in the gf's family, or at the girlfriend's mother's house? You might try drawing her out about whether she'd be happy to see her dad under other circumstances (e.g., he takes the children out for the day, just the three of them) or if she's really avoiding him.

What are you asking? If you shouldn't send her? How to approach the subject with him ? What are you being unreasonable/reasonable about?

What do the court orders say about all this or the legal advice you got on seperation?

Hi @Peachesnocream. Please don’t take some of the responses on here to heart. You’re clearly a very good mother in a difficult situation. And you don’t want to make things worse and lose majority custody.

He’s clearly not being a good father by any reasonable person’s reckoning. He should be giving them bedding, comfort, enough food to eat and his full attention. Or he shouldn’t have them on a regular basis. He can clearly afford it if he keeps going on holiday. He shouldn’t be leaving them with other people on his one night with them, especially his gf family. What if her mother is cold and nasty, has a dangerous dog or a man in her home who’s abusive?

Remember, abusive people can manipulate children by telling them something bad will happen if they tell their mum.

I strongly suggest you seek legal advice. It’s very concerning he won’t give you his address. Unless there’s a history of you turning up at his address etc, that’s not positive coparenting. It shows he’s being secretive. So, what else is he hiding? Could he be living in a homeless hostel where he gets a self contained room? Does his gf stay over when the kids are there, i.e. do they have to hear them being intimate? If I was seeing a man who had his kids one night a week, there’s no way I’d expect to see him on that one night. I’d give them space and time together. So, the gf also sounds quite thoughtless to the kids. Is it possible he’s even gone out (when no one will look after them) and left them on their own, but sworn your daughter to secrecy?

Given the children aren’t being put first, your DD may be very stressed about her younger brother. If he’s 4, could he be crying from cold or hunger and she has to mother him? Could it be he’s not being looked after in other ways, so she’s worried he’ll hurt himself?

Is your ex the sort who’d bother with a court order? It’s costly. Are you sure he’s not just using 50/50 as a threat? This sort of scenario must be quite common. I strongly suggest legal advice, even if you have to borrow the money to see a solicitor.

And don’t believe your MIL saying you’re being dramatic. You’re absolutely not. What mother would want her young children staying at an unknown address, being left with strangers (again, presumably, at an unknown address), having to sleep without bedding and not even being able to eat toast without going out. A toaster from Argos costs about £10 FFS. It would be bad enough even if your DC are happy staying there. But your DD clearly isn’t.

I hope you can get advice. In the meantime, could you buy them their own ready beds to take (airbeds with built in sleeping bag)? And pack them healthy snacks (dried fruit, pastries for breakfast etc). I know it’s his responsibility, but if it means they’re more comfortable while you go for full custody, it’s surely worth it. Ready beds may not be a total waste as they could be handy for friends sleepovers at yours in a few years.

OP is clearly afraid of upsetting her ex. These issues are not black & white. Setting off a man like this isn’t always wise… We read so many stories of them going to court, and outright lying.

But your kids come first. I would come up with a few excuses that they can’t go (yes, you’ll be left doing all the work, it’s not fair, but he isn’t showing up for them). One week they’re sick, etc etc…

Just ease them off on going every week. He’ll be just as happy as he can hang around with this GF uninterrupted. He will will soon lose interest in them. It’s sad. Listen to your daughter.

This might be a good strategy. Gradually change the custom and practice. Make up odd excuses to reduce the number of nights they stay. See if he actually protests. Sounds like it’d suit him if he’s wanting to go out. Sometimes with men like this, it’s best not to instigate a formal route. Let them do that and they often don’t bother. If you work on the day they’re with him (Sunday?) could your family come to your home to look after them?

It’s an awful position to be in. I’ve been in similar position as a mum. When mine were younger they still had to go to their dads because in the eye of court and CAFCAS not sending them would be considered parental alienation regardless of whether they wanted to go or not. Now they are older it is not because they are considered to have their own voice and wishes that are respected because they are consider to be mature enough to make that decision them self’s.

as for his living situation being the fact they primarily live with you, they do not need their own bedrooms or their own beds when they visit their dad, so as much as I disagree with this, air beds are considered more than enough to the courts etc.

as for stopping contact on the grounds of her not wishes to go, if there is no child arrangement order and he hasn’t gone to court, you can stop contact but if he took you to court for access it will be frowned upon and considered parental alienation and won’t look good for yourself. However, maybe put in writing about the worries you have, that daughter doesn’t want to come next time, she’s been very upset, you are unsure her reasons and maybe a week not going may do her good and will want to come next time? Ensuring, you put that if he thinks she should come anyway despite how she’s feeling you respect his decision you just wanted to seek his advice how best to handle the situation because you feel it important for her to maintain a relationship with her daddy. Ensure it is In writing but how he spends his time when he has the children spending it with girlfriends etc is nothing to do with yourself so I would not mention it at all, you will be considered jealous and bitter.

its hard but it does get easier xx

I was the child in this situation. My dad loved me but was an inadequate parent. He couldn't cook and his house was a mess. He kept the family home but wouldn't let me out to play with my friends next door. And going there was so boring! I didn't want to go but he insisted I did, we went to court but they said I was too young too decide not to go. When I got to about 13 I just stopped going, so back to court we went and this time, after making me talk to a social worker, they said it was my decision. This was forty years ago though, perhaps its better now?

It certainly sounds like a room in a boarding house, especially as there are no cooking facilities.

OP, I would be very concerned about the toilet/bathroom situation, too. If it is a single room, without cooking facilities, what are the odds that there is also no private bathroom? No way would my child be somewhere where they have to find a shared bathroom somewhere else in a building.

For goodness sake, you can be fair but you don’t have to be dim. You’re more of a parent than he is and you know it. It’s not just because you’re a mum it’s because you’re the only active caring parent who meets their needs. It’s ok to say that out loud? It’s not enough of a reason for her not to go at 8, but empathise, and when she’s 13/14 and he’s equally useless then you can’t force her to see him.

She said her only issue is the uncomfortable air bed and he doesn’t have much food in. Appears he gets the really comfy one and I can’t believe he does that to them.

If that is the main concern- not much food that to eat toast, they have to go to a local Cafe and an uncomfortable air mattress with no sheets. Why keep sending them there?!

OP, you are unsure of where your children are staying for the time he has them. That's a safeguarding concern. I would refuse to send them, unless he gives up his address. Unless there's a reason that is not being said, why he's refusing.

The new gf best take heed of how he treats his current children, in case she thinks it will be different for theirs, if they have children together.

I don’t think very highly of new gf as like another poster said I would ensure this little time he has with them is quality time and would stay well away as I would be aware that we have the full week together. She also has a child so he just be confused too.

I can’t believe he does that to them.

I can't believe you let him

I hate to say this, but why would she care.

She sees that the dad is chaotic and not parenting effectively and dare I say he has convinced that you're ok with this arrangement. Or your "crazy" and "that's why it ended" or "why she can't have my address as she'll come around here kicking off." Whatever he chooses to say, makes no difference. She's in cloud cuckoo land right now and can't see sense.

She sees a very casual arrangement of visitation, he spends on her and takes his children to a Cafe to eat toast. Not even her mothering instincts have kicked in to say this is unacceptable. So she doesn't sound any better to be honest.

But don't focus on her. Put your focus back on your children. The gf is the least of your concerns right now.

Well he won’t give me his address as apparently I am crazy. I don’t think I am, I am just a caring mum who wants to know where my kids are and I had every right to kick off with him about it.

I didn’t think I had any rights to stop it. I was uncomfortable with it but now my daughter has said something I am 100% going to do something about it.

she also said that she does want to see the gf sometimes but not all the time as she is always there.

My parents divorced aged seven and I went through plenty of stages. I HATED sleeping anywhere away from home anyway and went through a phase of not wanting to stay at my dads for literally no reason other than it wasn’t my home. It had nothing to do with my dad. I then went through a phase of always wanting to stay at my dad’s.

That’ll teach me to post before I read the thread. Clearly there are issues in your situation!

I’m an experienced teacher and also worked for several years in children’s safeguarding. When children make disclosures, they rarely, if ever, disclose everything at once. They usually drip-feed information to test the water, ie. they will tell the least upsetting thing first, often because they are scared about upsetting a parent, getting in trouble or not being believed.

You must not just be satisfied with her first, seemingly minor, explanation. It sounds horrible to sleep on an airbed with no sheet, but that doesn’t sound enough to prompt a child to say they wish they didn’t have a dad. I feel in my gut there is a lot more to this.

You clearly don’t have the skills or confidence to handle this on your own, and your children’s next scheduled visit to their dad is fast approaching. I URGE you to take action today and contact SS for advice. Tell them that he refuses to give you the address, that your daughter has come home upset saying she doesn’t want to go back, and explain about the sleeping and food arrangements.

I’m sure you said earlier that it is a one bed flat. So why does the Dad sleep on an airbed in the same room as the children? And presumably his gf sleeps there too? They could well be having sex in the same room as your DC. He clearly is NOT in a one bed flat, it sounds like a bedsit/studio flat or a room in a HMO, in which case there is a further safeguarding issue as there will be other unknown adults living in that house and potentially posing a risk to your children. It sounds very likely that your children are having to use a shared toilet/bathroom with strangers, that is terrifying.

This is all very serious and an urgent safeguarding matter. You keep saying “I am going to do something about it”, but when?? Please contact SS TODAY