BE - dog and newborn guilt

[Cat921]

Three weeks ago we had our reactive 14 year old Jack Russell put to sleep because of his strange behaviour around our newborn baby and I feel so guilty.

Our dog was our whole life. We loved him dearly! My husband had him before we met since he was a puppy so for 14 years and I had him for 9 years. He was very reactive and we changed our whole life since I have known my husband for him. He was very territorial of the home and we couldn’t invite people over so we would have to put him upstairs away from visitors. He had previously bitten two people who entered the house quite a few years previously.
He accepted my mum eventually after she give him treats but had to be introduced with a muzzle. On walks we kept him close to use as he did not like other dogs or people and we were unsure if he would bite out of anxiety. He was an anxious dog who hated baths, blowing out candles, and sneezes. He would need to be on a lead in the garden as he hated the dog next door and would bark at him incessantly through the fence and we also were worried about him getting out and potentially biting someone out of fear. He hated when parcels would be dropped off and we would have to fight to get to the door. He had three people in his life he was fine with and who he loved. He hated the car and we could not take him anywhere or to public places as he would get so anxious.

When we first returned home, for the first three days we were surprised as our dog was fine with our newborn and we introduced them from a distance and let him smell her blanket and baby grow. I bought extra treats and toys for him. I naively thought he would be fine but my husband had had prior reservations before we brought her home. We were hoping he would sense my pregnancy as he would always sit on my knee for cuddles. After a few days, he barked at my baby in her Moses basket and my husband grew unsure of his intentions. He started becoming stressed when she cried as if he realised that she was suddenly here and would hide under the table and started weeing in the house. We never sanctioned him for this. He then started taking an interest in the Moses basket in the living room and was obsessed with jumping up at it even when she wasn’t crying. He wasn’t necessarily bothered about her when I was holding her on the sofa. We contacted a dogs trust behaviourist for advice. We couldn’t have a behaviourist come to the house as he does not accept visitors. He then continued to bark when she cried and we recorded my babies cried and used a doll (suggested by dogs trust) to positively reinforce him leaving it alone with treats but this did not work. He then started jumping up at me on the sofa when holding my baby with his tail down and we recorded this and sent to dogs trust who said it was potentially concerning behaviour. Our dog slept in our bed with us his whole life and our baby had her next to me crib in there and I felt uneasy about him accessing it if I was asleep at night as it was on his level. He never bothered it the previous nights but I ended up sleeping downstairs with her the few nights after that which was hard with a newborn. We had to put his muzzle on to calm him in the house as he would not leave the Moses basket alone.

We were able to manage all of this behaviour previous to my daughter being born as he was the most loving dog with us and never bit us or showed any aggression to me and my husband. We loved him so much but this was hard to manage with a newborn. I think I know ultimately it was the right decision but feel bad as he looked to me to protect him and would always come to me when scared! The guilt is awful! It was such a stressful situation and hormones were everywhere and feel we should have gave him longer than a week to adjust but me and my partner just were unsure of his behaviour and couldn’t read him and weren’t sure if we could take that chance with our newborn. We were worried this anxiety would manifest itself into aggression. We could not rehome him as he would not do well in that situation and could be a potential risk to strangers. We also read that dogs don’t see babies as human and as potentially an animal and prey which scared us. We are heartbroken that we had to make this decision. Anyone had a similar situation and how do I deal with this guilt?

what an unkind post

I’m sorry you feel that way but getting a dog is not a light commitment. As I said, the OP was right to protect her baby but do I think they had a cavalier attitude to how the dog would adapt and an irresponsible way of hoping for the best - well then, yes.

they did say the dog eventually became used to the mother who gave it treats which indicates that consistency and time and dedication meant it was able to overcome certain people.

there are plenty of people saying to posters it’s clear they don’t have reactive dogs when it’s also clear that some do. I am one of them and yes I have had to make different life choices.

people should be aware that the dog they want may not be the dog they end up with and be prepared to accommodate for that - if not then frankly they shouldn’t have one. And if more people didn’t have dogs that would also be for the best if they aren’t able to care for it for the whole of its life.

@Cat921 he lived to a good age in a home where he was loved. at his age any change in his health or environment would make him extremely wary. it is unlikely that he would have lasted much longer. you did the correct thing in this instance. if it had been a young dog i would have advocated rehoming but not at that age. rehoming at that age would have sent him in a downward spiral.

Don’t have a baby because you have a dog? What a ridiculous post. Dogs are not human children and equating them as such is a huge part of the reason there are so many badly behaved dogs now.

He was a dog who would be okay with things then suddenly wasn’t! There is a park where we lived and we would take him there every day then he suddenly refused to go there and didn't like it and became anxious for no reason so we changed our walk route! He was 14 and I just felt there was no reason to stress him out. Years ago, he used to be fine with people coming to the house then suddenly wasn’t. He used to have a dog friend then suddenly hated dogs for no reason. He was unpredictable and unreadable. We did play baby crying sounds before I had her and tried to positively tears him for good behaviour. We tried for years to give him treats when the doorbell rang to make him calmer when he acted well but it didn’t work.

You clearly didn’t read what I wrote. Nowhere did I say dogs are equivalent to human children.

if anything, I said they should consider their baby’s safety first but it sounds from what was written this was done in an irresponsible way with little preparation or thought given to what might happen if the dog didn’t adapt.

and yes, when you have agreed to look after another living thing your desire to simply have a baby doesn’t just automatically trump that. Sorry if you find that an unpopular opinion 🤷🏼‍♀️

there are many badly behaved dogs for a variety of reasons.

It's obvious you had no choice. I understand you will grieve for your dog but don't feel guilty. You were right to put your baby first.
I think you may have saved your babys life by letting him go. If you start to feel guilty just remember that

The dog could have lived 5 years more, you have no idea how old OP is or her circumstances.

OP and her partner gave a very difficult dog who has already bitten people a good life..
They made a lot of allowances for the dog over his life that I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't.
They did the right thing for their dog and for their baby

You definitely did the right thing. You will really be grieving now, as well as dealing with the guilt, but you would be dealing with so much more guilt if anything bad had happened.

You gave him an awesome life! Try to focus on that. You're a great dog/baby parent. x

You were absolutely correct to do what you did. The dog was not aware it was going to be pts.
I am going to get a roasting for this and I am prepared!!
Why wasn’t the dog pts immediately it bit someone or at least the second time it bit someone?
You can protect yourself and friends at home, but what if there was a fire, you had an accident or a there was a robbery while you were out? What if the dog escaped?
Do innocent firefighters, paramedics, police or innocent members of the public deserve to get bitten?

You made some good points in your post, perhaps the OP could have done more for the dog before the baby was born. But then you unfortunately lose credibility and your entire post is dismissed completely when you say the OP should have resigned herself to a childless life because she had a reactive dog. That’s ludicrous. And it equates dogs to children. What if the dog became reactive after she had a child? Would you suggest rehoming the child because the dog came first and a dog is for life? Like I said, ludicrous.

Op didn’t choose to get a dog, partner had it before they were together, and it sounds like their whole lives revolved around this dog for 14 years making many allowances for his anxiety and difficulties (no visitors, no holidays, certain walk routes etc) but a baby cannot be risked. There is no thing wrong with them choosing to have a baby! Some may choose not to because of their dog but that doesn’t make their choice the wrong one

No point trying to row back from your original post with ‘you made some good points’ now.

and no, it doesn’t equate dogs to children. It’s about being a responsible human being and pet owner. It’s precisely because people don’t think ahead and plan for things that can happen, let alone when it’s staring them in the face, that these issues arise and awful situations occur.

youre obviously entitled to your views but I’m afraid I don’t agree that wanting a child means you can just abscond from the responsibilities and ties you already have when those are also to another living being. You may not like it or agree with it which is perfectly fine but perhaps don’t get a pet or take responsibility for one in that case.

If you read the OP’s posts, it’s clear from what she has posted that the dog obviously was able to overcome certain triggers with consistency which seems to have not been applied when they knew a baby was on the way.

also ludicrous to extrapolate from what I said to a completely different situation. A dog that becomes reactive after a child is born is not the same as what’s happened here. That is completely different. The point is that here they were very aware of the many issues surrounding the dog before the baby was born and don’t appear to have done much to plan for it and that really is the issue.

14 years is long enough. You revolved your entire life around this dog and making sure he was comfortable and had as happy a life as he could. At the end of the day, he was a very high risk. Not just to the baby, to many. If you hadn’t been as careful as you did - and even though you had there was still a good risk - he could have bitten and been PTS at a much earlier date. You gave him a very decent length of life despite his clear issues.

Baby or not, it sounds like it was time to let him go. A dachshund just this week was reported to have killed a newborn baby that slept in a cot.

You gave your whole life the last decade to this dog. It’s time you had your own life. You didn’t make the dog reactive or cause the aggression risks. Grieve, but don’t feel guilty.

A dog behaviourist said they could not help. It seems OP and her DP had tried many things for many years and been essentially fobbed off and told there was no changing this dog. Sometimes, sadly, that is just the way it is.

It was pint worth the risk. Did you read the full post? The baby must come first . I don’t know of anyone who would put a dog first.

IRL no one would, but on Mumsnet people must sacrifice all at the altar of Dog Ownership 🙄

People living their lives around dogs to this extent is exactly why there's so many poorly behaved dogs/dogs with issues around. In the past people would have immediately put them down and removed them from the gene pool. OP is a more responsibile owner than you in my opinion.

You did the right thing OP, he should have probably been PTS immediately after the first bite incident.

I agree with this. You had 9 months to sort out the bedroom issue and put him to sleep after 1
week? You should feel guilty and you shouldn’t have another dog

I am absolutely staggered that anybody thinks it is appropriate to come on and criticise OP.

What if somebody reading this thread in a similar situation takes your words to heart, and decides they can't PTS out of fear of judgement like that - and in consequence their baby is hurt or worse?

I love dogs - but human beings are infinitely more important. This dog had bitten twice - it would have been suitable for rehoming, and some dogs have, or develop in old age, issues so extreme they cannot be dealt with by even the most experienced behaviourist - and if the dog is in mental pain, sometimes just as if it were in physical pain, it is only right to PTS.

I do think there needs to be a lot more awareness of the dangers of dogs around newborns/babies. My dog at the time I had DD was extremely gentle, but nonetheless having her demanded a level of vigilance that was truly exhausting. If I had known in advance what it would be like to have the dog and the baby I would not have got a dog in the first place - and I massively love dogs.

But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

This is it. As much as everyone can point fingers and say they’d hold on til the bitter end, this dog already had incidents of biting people and they fought very hard to keep the dog around, happy and comfortable, for many years despite knowing the high risk it could happen again.

I bet if this was a particularly large staffy someone deemed an XL Bully more would be saying it should have been put down the first time it snapped.

The dog wasn’t safe. It was just about safe with its primary caregivers, so long as they took ample precautions and avoided all triggers. It’s no way to live.

To the person saying they should have put it in a shelter, a dog this old and this reactive? No chance of it ever getting out. So you’re suggesting the dog keep living, but in a cage for its final years, increasingly depressed at its own abandonment. Very humane of you.

I don’t think anyone’s saying to hold on to the bitter end though are they?

I think the point being made was that not much was done to think ahead on this issue and prepare the dog other than hoping for the best which is pretty poor. The OP said the dog overcame its issues with her mother which does beg the question why wasn’t more invested in it when they had 9 months and had admittedly been trying for a baby.

I did read the full post but I’m not sure you did or read mine for that matter.

We did! We used baby crying sounds and used a fake doll and had the Moses basket in the living room before the baby was here. He wasn’t bothered but the recorded baby crying sounds but just out babies cries in the house when she was obviously here! He also didn’t link where the crying was coming from and thought it was the Moses basket even when she wasn’t in there which was concerning. We were worried if he linked the two then there would be potential risk.

He did eventually after weeks of positive reinforcement get used to my mum but that was 9 years ago and became a lot more set in his ways. My mum used to give him a treat but obviously the baby couldn’t do that. My mum also left the house whereas the baby couldn’t. He was particularly triggered by her cries but was not triggered when we played random baby cries prior to her arriving.