To agree with Wes Streeting's statement that MH issues are overdiagnosed?

[Locutus2000]

Pretty controversial stuff.

Who decides?

'I think there are more pressures on people than at any time in my 69-year life'

Really, you don't remember 14% inflation in 1980, or the power cuts in the 70s, or the miners strikes? People are so better looked after nowadays what with support at work, support at home with benefits etc. People have more rights than ever.

They also have more expectations than ever and less resilience and that is the problem.

Tell me what objective test any of the healthcare professionals you have seen do? You can't because there is no objective test. I also agree about pain unless there is scan or x-ray evidence showing some physical problem. That is really the crux of the problem because there will be most people telling the truth but there will be some scammers. It's impossible to tell the difference with nonobjective test. A previous poster said they tend to underreport. A scammer might over report.

The effects of prolonged elevated levels of cortisol, norepinephrine and other "stress hormones" on brain function are quite well documented. Over a prolonged period, the changes can be pronounced, and lead to significant mood and processing difficulties. One study even suggested that it can be a contributory factor in dementia.

While stress in itself may not be a MH condition, it can clearly be a precursor to one. Constantly being in, or on the brink of, "flight or fight" mode must be really wearing, our brains aren't built to cope with it.

Many, many things 'can' contribute to dementia.

Stress is part of life. We need to manage it/accept it.

I agree in one way, I think sometimes a diagnosis of mental illness is used so deeper investigation isn't warranted. I certainly think that's the case for me, I have suffered with depression, and been diagnosed with it. However I also have physical symptoms that aren't explained away by depression or helped by it's treatment. When having blood tests I'm always 'borderline' no treatment required for Thyroid function. But I'm not a text book, just because the average says at the borderline level I don't need treatment, it doesn't mean that I don't have the physical symptoms, or that treatment wouldn't be effective. It's not even tried though. So I'm diagnosed with depression, because physically on paper I'm 'fine', and the physical symptoms persist. Because anti depressants don't help them. It's like banging your head against a brick wall.
I'm starting to face the same now I'm getting to peri menopause. Blood test (that even they tell you aren't accurate!) say hormone levels are normal, so that's that, too young for hrt, must be depressed and this time have anxiety too. Here's some more anti depressants. Off you pop. Want some talking therapy? Sick note because you're not coping?
No, no I don't, I want the physical symptoms that living with makes me unhappy addressed and then maybe I won't be depressed! Sore joints, crushing fatigue, constant itching, insomnia all things that sap the life out of you and yes, make you depressed when you're trying to live with them. Other signs are present, longer between periods, skipping them, then flooding etc. But no, you've got depression and anxiety. Off you go. Just because I've had depression doesn't mean I can't suffer with physical illness, or a very normal part of aging as a woman that brings with it some problems that can be addressed.

On the other hand, mental health services have been cut to practically non existent, seems like they're trying to change the narrative from 'Not enough mental health services' to 'too many mental illnesses being diagnosed'.

In both cases a lack of diagnosis isn't going to stop any illness being there.

Honestly the best thing I did last year when I was really depressed (not diagnosed but lost the will to do anything, even shower - gross I know), was delete all my socials and get back in to horse riding after an 8 year gap.

Without the pressure of Instagram particularly, checking what everyone is doing etc, I feel so free. Modern life is so bad for our mental health, I rediscovered my inner pony mad child and feel so much happier; I’d had a sudden bereavement in May and my littlest then started school and I felt so lost all the time. Getting out in nature, even just going to the stables to brush the ponies or feed them some snacks just makes me feel so refreshed. I know not everyone can do that but we can all go out to the park and admire the seasons in the trees and remember what life is actually about, we can all delete social media. It has such a chokehold on so many of us it’s scary.

Maybe we should send him the thread on here about people crying at work. It may educate him.

I remember them well, thanks. I also remember that my pay rises covered inflation and that the power cuts were planned, so you knew when they were going to happen. Friends who lived a couple of streets away had their power cuts at different times from us, so we'd often congregate at whoever's flat had power that evening. We weren't so dependent on electronic things either, and it felt quite novel to play board games by candlelight on evenings where there was no electricity.

And I can remember that jobs that required working beyond 5 or 6pm or on Sundays were rare outside of hospitality, healthcare, emergency services or industries like energy and water supply, you could rent a flat with your mates for peanuts (I was earning £4k pa and my share of the rent was £7pw). At 19, I was earning enough to run a car, rent a flat, go out most nights, buy all my shoes from Russell & Bromley and have 2 holidays most years. And I was able to buy a house with 100% mortgage on just my salary in 1982.

Disgusting attitude. How do you explain the research that shows ND people have shorter lifespans and suicide rates that are nine times higher than the rest of the population.

I can only think you're driven by cruelty and selfishness.

But the method some people use to deal with stress (avoiding every day life rather than learning coping mechanisms and building resilence) is usually a major contribution to declining mental health.
I don't think signing off from work generally will help stress. It may temporarily but its just hiding from the issue and then adds further stress as it builds it into a larger thing.

I was quoting a pp saying adhd was being deprioritised by the nhs, not ND as a whole which as you should know is a massive spectrum of which adhd is on the mild end.

I'm not driven by cruelty and selfishness at all. As someone who supports a person with significant problems I just despair that pip is being rehashed yet again to cut down on the massive increase in claims due to such things as adhd and/or anxiety.

But that is by your definition. For some people ADHD is massively debilitating. How would you feel if posters thought the same about your relative or their disability benefits were deemed unnecessary?

Well yes my definition and hopefully the tightening up on eligibility will mean others agree.

Pip should be for serious and significant physical and mental illnesses.

Or maybe the definition will be assessed again and your relative will not qualify. For someone caring for a disabled person, you have a definite 'I'm alright Jack' attitude. Feeding into ableist attitudes feeds into the idea that disabled people are a waste of resources.

To be fair, some who have been under constant stress for prolonged periods of time, may crash. It’s not that they wish to avoid life, they just can’t deal with it - hopefully just in the short term and they recover.

If work is that particular cause, it will help. And if things don’t improve in the workplace, a move to a different role/organisation may be the best for an individual. It’s not always the person who is at fault. Some environments are just very unhealthy.

I don't have an alright Jack attitude in the slightest. I'm a big advocate of the rights of disabled people.

Pip has become a free for all and genuine claimants are suffering because of that.

Many people with adhd and or anxiety can live full and actuve lives independently. PIP is for those seriously affected who require help, supervision and intervention.

You imply that ADHD is mild without properly understanding the condition. As a carer to two adults with a combination of autism and ADHD, it is a significant disability to the point that my son has been in a life threatening situation a number of times. It is disappointing that as somone caring for someone with a significant problem, you cannot extend that compassion to those of us with ADHD or caring for someone with ADHD.

Many can’t

I think he is completely wrong. There can be no real figure put on whether there is a misdiagnosis, because mental health services are so badly over stretched they aren’t seeing enough people to be able to properly diagnose. This means GPs are the only place people can get any sort of help, and they don’t have the time to meet with patients to properly deal with it.

Is it any surprise that after one of the most difficult times the nation has been through, there are people who struggle now with poor mental health? My husband hasn’t had an issue his whole life with mental health, but about two years ago found himself bursting in to tears at the drop of a hat, unable to cope with work (although he kept going) and considered taking his life. This is not the “normal range of emotions”. Thankfully we have a brilliant GP who put him on anti-depressants and he is going to counselling. For him it was dealt with early enough for it not to become impossible for him to work and he found the right medication. Luckily for him, I’m a mental health first aider, spotted the signs and basically bullied him to go to the doctor.

People are dealing with so much right now with the cost of living crisis, with the state of the world, it isn’t just about not being resilient and able to cope with things. If your family is living in poverty and every day you are deciding whether to heat or eat, the pressures of daily life are really hard. It isn’t a failure of the individual, it is a failure of the support provided.

For a government minister to say this is unacceptable. Putting much more support in place, particularly for young people’s mental health is the only way to fix the problem.

Adhd is 'mild'?

Seriously, you don't have a clue and it is deeply offensive to continue on this. You should be embarrassed by what you're coming out with.

Adhd leads to depression, anxiety states, impulsiveness, social isolation, addiction, poor physical health due to self neglect and over eatimg, problems with holding down jobs and meeting responsibilities. The prison population also have high rates of adhd as identified by the Canadian government several years ago. Adhd can lead to self harm and suicide and premature death.

It hasn’t been deprioritised. Quite the reverse.

PIP is not a free for all. It is really difficult to get. There are far more people who should be on it but aren’t, than people who are on it and don’t need it.

If you really do advocate for disabled people, you would know that.

Soooo ignorant!!!!

ADHD is not on the mild end or regarded as so.

It is on a spectrum as is autism, often people have both and all those diagnosed have to reach a high threshold.

I am autistic AND adhd and it's the adhd that causes me most problems and it's badly affecting my physical health, same with my son.

People have no clue as to what adhd actually is or how it affects people. It's the most misunderstood thing in spite of the fact that it can lead to death, as does autism and depression.

I agree; I can't continue discussion with this poster if they refuse to hear our stories and experiences. They have a bigoted view which is somewhat ironic given they say they're big on disability rights. Re deprioritisation of services, I read some research from Young that said that they were being deprioritised but maybe there's a reversal of this now and things will improve for our families. All the best moving forward and I hope today's announcement isn't too severe.