Changes to PIP

[Orangesandlemons77]

It looks like to qualify for PIP people will need 4 points in one area, see here from the Times
"In future, ministers will require applicants to score at least four points on at least one activity to qualify"
Not sure if this means in each section (care, mobility)

This would exclude quite a few people I think

I can’t see the article. But yes if that’s what it is going to be then yes it will exclude a lot of people. I can see the point of it, it needs changing.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/liz-kendall-disability-benefits-reform-xnrlccqpg

https://www.thetimes.com/article/53f68011-682a-4a67-a1ee-a92c263db956?shareToken=27cf10c2f3ba53bdac0323b53e3aa0da

I wonder how much difference that will make? If the aim is to reduce claims from people who could work but would rather not then there still seem to be a lot of categories where it would be easy to get 4 points through exaggeration and self reporting.

I think it would be much harder to get 4 points than two, in particular there is often 2 points for 'prompting' which would be easier to get for milder mental health problems, which they seem to be targeting.

It is also possible to get a total of 8 or 12 just with these in combination to qualify for both rates.

Don't you need a minimum of 8 points to qualify for pip in the first place??

PIP is an in work benefit. I wish people would understand that. Lots of people on PIP work.

It’s targeting mental health and nuerodiversity. It’s hard to get more than 2 points in each category unless at the more severe end.

Yes b it this can be made of 2 points in each category. This would be for example 8 points but with at least 4 coming from one.

Yes it means 4 or more in each descriptor, the prompting ones give 2

When are they announcing the changes?

Yes, I know. But I thought another part of the proposal was to replace the lcwra element of UC and replace with pip. Or am I completely wrong / completely out of date? There are so many rumours going round it’s hard to keep up!

I don't understand why this is being described as targeting people with mild mental health issues.

Someone who cannot, without encouragement and prompting, engage with other people. Who needs help managing their household finances. Who needs to be encouraged to prepare a simple meal. And who can't wash or dress themselves without encouragement. That person is hardly just having a bit of the weepies. They're seriously unwell and need support and kindness to give them the breathing space to recover

I’m so pissed off with Labour ffs, starting strong as wolves in sheep’s clothing by targeting pensioners and the disabled. Absolutely gross.

You are wrong!

PIP and the lcwra are totally different things. What has possibly been mooted is that for UC/ESA lcwra will only be awarded to those on PIP. But that is a rumour.

We won't know anything for sure until the green paper. Which is supposed to be published next week, but keeps being delayed because the whole thing is a shit show.

PIP is an in work benefit as PP have said. It is significantly harder to get than other benefits and even those with profound disabilities do not qualify for full rate everything & spend sometimes years appealing to tribunal stage where the majority of claims win.

I work and claim PIP. PIP helps me stay in work but I don’t get full rate mobility even though I technically qualify. I am absolutely aghast that they’re reforming PIP when the likelihood of fraudulent claims are so low and is paid even when you’re IN WORK which is surely the basis for the reform in the first place - to get people back to work.

Tuesday I think

I just hope that when people with difficulties are forced back to work that employers and any service users etc have huge amounts of patience with anyone who is struggling. Because that’s what currently lacking and something that cuts will never deal with 😞

Important to note that what will be announced are proposed changes. There will be a consultation period before the changes are finalised. Then they will have to be put to Parliament if the changes need primary legislation..

So there is a long way to go before changes are implemented. I am just saying all this because there are some extremely worried people out there who imagine their PIP is going to be snatched away overnight.

We all know how well that will go...

It can be though for mental health and neurodiversity. I’m diagnosed with ASD and ADHD. I do have to be prompted for lots of things for example to have a drink or food, and to take medication, need help with public transport such as planning journeys using it and support with some social situations. I struggle with lots of things, I wouldn’t be diagnosed if I didn’t. I also have a DH, DCs and a good job and mask very well. I would likely qualify for PIP with the current criteria, but should I? To be honest I’d rather the money went to those on the more severe end which is what this is getting at I think, the 4 points criteria is needing support to be able to do those things rather than prompting.

This was not the proposal. One proposal that has been reported as a potential change is to reduce the LCWRA element of UC and increase the standard element meaning less people get the LCWRA. I guess how many will lose out will depend what they reduce the LCWRA by and what they increase the standard element by as everyone gets the standard element ! Also presumably loads of working people who don't have any health problems will benefit too and it could potentially pull even more people into being able to claim UC in the first place. Can't see how it will reduce the bill much to be honest but I guess we have to wait for the announcements.
Another option that was banded about last year by the Conservatives I think was to make only people who got PIP would be able to get the LCWRA element of UC. I've not heard much mentioned on this recently or whether it's still an option being considered.

You can’t exaggerate or just self report. If you say you can’t do something then you have to have evidence of this. I can’t just say “I can’t get up and down the stairs unaided” I actually have to have evidence of this with let’s say an occupational therapy report. Or the 3 hospital admissions I had for falling down stairs.

I'm glad for you that you have a support system that works well for you and means you don't currently feel you need additional help. But lots of people don't have that. And a benefits system that shuts people out of support they would otherwise qualify for because they have a loving and capable family would be a strange system indeed

I’m similar. I have diagnosed autism but was only diagnosed as an adult. I’ve always struggled with getting washed and eating etc without someone prompting me.
When I was single I would sometimes not wash or clean my teeth for a few days or even up to a week. I was so skinny because unless I ate out I rarely had an actual meal. I would just eat a bag of crisps if I was hungry and that was it for the whole day sometimes.
I also struggle with certain social situations. I also once couldn’t work out a bus route or where to get on and I was so anxious about it I ended up walking home which took 3 hours.
My husband is great at reminding me and making me do these things and also helping planning things with me.
But. I work in a professional job. I earn good money. A lot of people don’t know I’m autistic because I am great at masking. I’m married. No children due to infertility though. Own my house (which I did before I met my husband). Have plenty of savings.

I think I could possibly qualify for PIP going by what others have said to me in the past. But should I? I have money. I don’t need the extra money. I can work (I do only work part time though due to repeated past burnouts but it’s still plenty to live on and save as its so well paid). I don’t have this mindset of well I CAN have it so I should apply even though I don’t need it. Plenty of others need it more.

(I’ll be honest though the older I get and see so many people taking things they don’t need, I do get more and more tempted to myself).