For telling my friend she was ridiculous to bring a 7 year old for a spa day!

[Senuousnotsensuous]

My friend Emily has a 7 year old daughter Milly who she brings every time we meet up either when it’s just the two of us or with a group of our other friends.

Emily insists Milly wants to come but it’s frustrating as we can never have a conversation without her giving her opinion or Milly takes over and Emily sits smiling proudly, she often comments on her daughter’s maturity and how she loves joining us.

We do occasionally get time when Milly is at school but any weekend meet ups are the same, Milly could stay with her dad at home but apparently gets very upset when she’s not invited so Emily gives in and lets her come. We have had a few occasions where we have met up in restaurants for a meal in the evenings and Milly has often made an appearance, the whole evening ends up revolving round her.

My other friends said they were fed up with this as well, we stopped inviting Emily as often but she noticed and was hurt.
I managed to get her to meet me one to one and asked if she was being persuaded by her husband to bring Milly and said I was concerned that she never seemed to get time to herself, she insisted that wasn’t the case and said she thought we loved seeing Milly.
I explained that no one else brought their kids along and wanted adult time and as much as we liked Milly it’s frustrating to get childcare for other kids for a childfree evening then Milly being allowed to come.
Its not fair on the other kids and changes the dynamic and means Emily has to leave early. We are sick of censoring the conversation and being unable to talk freely.
Emily agreed to stop bringing Milly along unless other kids were going to be present.

A few weeks ago we booked a spa day for today for 3 of us and Emily.
The package included a 25 minute massage treatment each and use of the facilities for 3 hours and afternoon tea with Prosecco.
I didn’t think not to ask Emily not to bring Milly as surely it’s common sense?!

Well the spa was booked for 10am and Emily brought Milly. We asked her how she possibly thought this would work and she said Milly wanted to use the pool and we could watch her when Emily had her massage.
Emily was told by staff she couldn’t being Milly into the spa and got very upset and complained that she’d paid for the day, her husband refused to pick her up saying he’d agreed to work overtime now, Milly started crying hysterically.

I had no sympathy and told Emily one of the reasons we booked a spa day was in the hope of actually spending time with her alone and we never considered she’d bring Milly. My other friends were equally as unsympathetic and said she had brought this on herself and it was her own fault Milly was upset and if lost the money.

Emily had to leave with Milly and looked absolutely devastated, she didn’t apologise though she just kept saying how ridiculous it was that the spa wouldn’t let Milly in or make any exceptions.

After she left we all agreed it was time to stop inviting Emily anywhere as she obviously wasn’t going to stop bringing Milly, we were throughly pissed off about the whole thing.

One friend has just sent me a message saying Emily has been crying down the phone for hours on her and thinks we were maybe a bit harsh and that Emily said she finds it hard to leave Milly because she gets so upset when she can’t come along. She thinks we should apologise for getting so frustrated with her today.

I think the whole situation is fucking bizarre and if Emily was a struggling single parent I could maybe understand it, I have had enough though and I’m not apologising, I have tried to chat about it but she’s not willing to listen.

AIBU for not being more understanding? It’s not just me, my other friends feel the same, even the friend who thinks we should apologise said she thinks it’s best we no longer invite Emily.
I don’t think Emily is ever going to take in what we are saying and she will keep bringing Milly because she can’t say no to her.

I know someone like this who also has a wild and colourful past. I have always wondered whether she takes the kids everywhere to stop her from being tempted to drink (which would lead to the colourful and wild antics).

That last bit explains everything. Even when there are children there, Milly refuses to engage with them because she thinks they are too young for her and babyish. Clearly an Emily issue. Emily is treating Milly like one of the grown ups to the point she thinks she is one of the adult group. Her mother seems unable to cope with the bawling and crying so just gives in to her alll the time and keeps bringing her.

I would keep an open mind. Just because you have heard the dad ‘encouraging her to go out’ does not mean that he is doing so behind closed doors. Note that he arranged to work overtime at the last minute when she was going to a spa. If Emily is ok with Milly going to school, clubs etc without her then unusual attachment may not be the issue here. Trying to force child free meet ups may be making things very difficult for her. She clearly wants to see you even if she can’t leave her child. I would arrange child inclusive meet ups in future rather than isolate her further. You can still do child free activities to do with other people.

There was an epic thread on here where a loon brought her toddler and husband to a country house hen weekend despite being told explicitly not to by pretty much all the other attendees and organiser. My jaw was on the floor!

He actively encourages her to go out without the child but Emily refuses to listen and still takes her everywhere.

Yes the mother is the problem too, I was just trying to give options of why she brings the kid along. Think you need to take a leaf out of your name.

Milly probably won’t allow her to go to therapy alone.

YANBU at all.
You don’t owe her any apology, if anything, she owes you one.

Her relationship with her daughter sounds unhealthy. I actually feel sorry for her child, as she is not doing her any favors.

And so does Milly.

I am calm ☺️ . Just find it rather crass the way some people always try to imply that every man must be an abuser.

I’m just wondering how the ages of the rest of the groups children compare to Millie? I had kids a lot later than the rest of my friendship group and had to suffer through a lot of what you describe but by the time I had my own kid my friends who all had theirs early were all ‘over’ having children along on days out as it no longer suited their personal circumstances.

I don’t particularly mind but it is self-centred in a different way.

Does this ring any bells or do you all have primary aged kids?

Wanting to bring a 7 year old to an evening weekday thing is unreasonable but wanting to spend the weekend with a 7 year old who is in school Monday to Friday is probably normal when kids are that age.

But “if” the dad is refusing to look after Milly then Emily should just say she can’t go, and as they’ve been friends for a long time tell her friends the truth.

im a single parent, there’s been loads of stuff I couldnt do over the years as I didn’t have childcare - I never took my kids to an adult meet up

Personally I find people who whine Not All Men quite crass but each to their own. It’s not unlikely in the least.

Oh I love the word Berk!

OP, you are definitely not being unreasonable

Emily's relationship with her daughter sounds unhealthy. What did she expect you all to do, refuse to go to your spa day in a show of solidarity? Weird as.

jesus this would drive me insane. What a pain in the arse Emily is! YANBU

Maybe you’ve all been too reasonable about this, @Senuousnotsensuous (love the user name. I’m reclaiming Simpleton, myself)

”Emily, this isn’t working . When we meet up as adults, Milly is not welcome. At all. None of the children are - not Ava, not Lucy, not Henry. If you can’t come alone, don’t come at all. We’ll understand, and we’ll see you when we do things with the children.”

This is a weird take. Why would wanting to do things without kids mean they don’t like her?

The worst part in all this is that she expected you all to spend your spa day looking after her child whilst she had her treatments. Absolutely unbelievable.

By the sounds of things Millie’s dad is not the issue. The issue is that Millie is likely an only child and Emily has mothered her so much that she thinks she’s on par with the adults and has an opinion on adult matters. Millie needs some play dates without Emily in tow and Emily needs therapy to get over her attachment issues. I’d bet on it that Millie sleeps in her bed with her while her husband is in another room.

I am assuming Milly is an only child? Did Emily have a particularly difficult pregnancy, or was getting pregnant difficult for her?

I only ask because the mother I know who is like Emily had a very traumatic gynae history, at least two miscarriages and an ectopic, so when she finally carried a pregnancy to term and had her daughter, it was like the second coming of the messiah (for her and her dh at least). Obviously the rest of the friendship group were delighted for her but that delight rapidly waned as she literally lost the ability to talk about anything else but her DD, and brought her everywhere - understandable as a newborn but an evening meal with cocktails with a 3 year old? Err, no.

Some people genuinely don't think the rules apply to them. One event I remember organising when I was on the PTA at primary involving a bar, very very strict licensing rules around adults only and this was made explicitly clear on the tickets, on the night we had one woman turn up with a year-old baby (Oh, babies don't count, they're not going to be drinking <tinkly laugh>) and another who brought a 14 year old (oh "adults only" really just means smaller children, doesn't it!?) and I had to be the bad guy refusing them both entry.

We all have experience of parents who cannot parent, cannot say "no" and have very unhealthy dynamics with their DC. Emily is one of those - genuinely cannot get her tiny brain around why on earth you would not want to be around her child.

I don’t think you are angry enough at her. It’s all very well she was sobbing down the phone afterwards, but she never stopped to consider any of the groups feelings. Plus just assuming that she can bring a child to the spa. She sounds amazingly arrogant.

if she gets into contact, you need not sugarcoat anything. Don’t apologise. Tell her that she’s upset the group by her behaviour.

I don't think I've ever been to a spa which allowed children under 12, so I think the spa sorted this one by telling Emily that she couldn't bring her child in. And Emily was an utter idiot not to have checked (even independently with the spa) whether Milly could come! I would have thought if there were problems with Milly and her Dad, Emily would have had a quiet word with at least one of her friendship group to indicate that she wasn't happy leaving Milly...

Which leads me to believe that Emily is a wet lettuce and Milly is running rings around her by turning on the waterworks every time she wants to come along and 'be a grown up'. Emily needs to learn to tell Milly that she's a child and can't come to all grown up meet ups, and Milly needs to learn that the word 'no' means 'no, you bloody can't come!'

I think you should organise a child friendly day out and every time Milly tries to sit with the adults, ask another child to take her off, send her to play with the others any time she wants to stay with the grown ups. She needs to socialise with children and learn how to cope without mum. Poor kid, although I can thoroughly understand why you’re all fed up of her.

Agree, this is exactly what to say and all the friend group should say it