For telling my friend she was ridiculous to bring a 7 year old for a spa day!

[Senuousnotsensuous]

My friend Emily has a 7 year old daughter Milly who she brings every time we meet up either when it’s just the two of us or with a group of our other friends.

Emily insists Milly wants to come but it’s frustrating as we can never have a conversation without her giving her opinion or Milly takes over and Emily sits smiling proudly, she often comments on her daughter’s maturity and how she loves joining us.

We do occasionally get time when Milly is at school but any weekend meet ups are the same, Milly could stay with her dad at home but apparently gets very upset when she’s not invited so Emily gives in and lets her come. We have had a few occasions where we have met up in restaurants for a meal in the evenings and Milly has often made an appearance, the whole evening ends up revolving round her.

My other friends said they were fed up with this as well, we stopped inviting Emily as often but she noticed and was hurt.
I managed to get her to meet me one to one and asked if she was being persuaded by her husband to bring Milly and said I was concerned that she never seemed to get time to herself, she insisted that wasn’t the case and said she thought we loved seeing Milly.
I explained that no one else brought their kids along and wanted adult time and as much as we liked Milly it’s frustrating to get childcare for other kids for a childfree evening then Milly being allowed to come.
Its not fair on the other kids and changes the dynamic and means Emily has to leave early. We are sick of censoring the conversation and being unable to talk freely.
Emily agreed to stop bringing Milly along unless other kids were going to be present.

A few weeks ago we booked a spa day for today for 3 of us and Emily.
The package included a 25 minute massage treatment each and use of the facilities for 3 hours and afternoon tea with Prosecco.
I didn’t think not to ask Emily not to bring Milly as surely it’s common sense?!

Well the spa was booked for 10am and Emily brought Milly. We asked her how she possibly thought this would work and she said Milly wanted to use the pool and we could watch her when Emily had her massage.
Emily was told by staff she couldn’t being Milly into the spa and got very upset and complained that she’d paid for the day, her husband refused to pick her up saying he’d agreed to work overtime now, Milly started crying hysterically.

I had no sympathy and told Emily one of the reasons we booked a spa day was in the hope of actually spending time with her alone and we never considered she’d bring Milly. My other friends were equally as unsympathetic and said she had brought this on herself and it was her own fault Milly was upset and if lost the money.

Emily had to leave with Milly and looked absolutely devastated, she didn’t apologise though she just kept saying how ridiculous it was that the spa wouldn’t let Milly in or make any exceptions.

After she left we all agreed it was time to stop inviting Emily anywhere as she obviously wasn’t going to stop bringing Milly, we were throughly pissed off about the whole thing.

One friend has just sent me a message saying Emily has been crying down the phone for hours on her and thinks we were maybe a bit harsh and that Emily said she finds it hard to leave Milly because she gets so upset when she can’t come along. She thinks we should apologise for getting so frustrated with her today.

I think the whole situation is fucking bizarre and if Emily was a struggling single parent I could maybe understand it, I have had enough though and I’m not apologising, I have tried to chat about it but she’s not willing to listen.

AIBU for not being more understanding? It’s not just me, my other friends feel the same, even the friend who thinks we should apologise said she thinks it’s best we no longer invite Emily.
I don’t think Emily is ever going to take in what we are saying and she will keep bringing Milly because she can’t say no to her.

This would be my concern too, that there is a reason that she hasn’t shared with you that she always has Millie with her.

Ive got a friend who very often has her kids with her (not to this extreme!) and it’s because she’s not confident in their dads parenting. They would go to her parents house for a visit if we had a spa day.

What is her husband like?

Yanbu at all. Why are people so bloody pathetic? Crying and complaining and whinging? Your friend needs to grow the fuck up, tell her sappy daughter that it's a grown up ladies' day/meal/whatever and she'll see her later. That that is what old friends do sometimes and she'll do it too when she's a lady.

This is absolutely why some children grow up so dependent and unable to cope with life.

Both Emily and Milly are spoilt brats. Emily obviously expects to get her own way and is happy to ignore other peoples thoughts and wishes. She’s bringing milly up to be exactly the same. I’d totally ditch her. Insane she thought she could bring a kid to the spa, the other guests would have been lining up to complain.

I wonder what she (rightly or wrongly) thinks might happen to the child if she's left with her dad?

Totally bonkers. The worst bit though in my eyes was she expected that you’d all watch her while she had her massage. Exactly what you’d want on a spa day!

Anyone with any common sense would know it was inappropriate. My own children know that spas are for adults. They have pretended to run one at home but are very aware they won’t be going to one any time soon.

I have a former friend like this too. She cant set boundaries with her own kids, takes then everywhere and then gets resentful. The friendship ended because she kept telling us how she's so envious that we're able to go jogging without our kids, that she keeps gaining weight because Ava and Johnnie want to join her when she goes jogging so she cant run fast, that her house is a mess because Ava and Johnnie want to play with her when she's cleaning and that it's not fair we all have perfect lives. We don't have perfect lives, we're just capable of saying "Kids, I'm going jogging for 30mins, stay with Daddy and I'll be back soon", or "kids, I'm just mopping the floor right now, we'll play when I've finished." Some people just don't seem able to set boundaries with their own kids in order to carve out a little alone time, and that doesn't do anyone any favours.

Sounds like possibly some bizarre controlling behaviour from the Dad. Surely she’s old enough to be at home watching a movie while he works?

If you genuinely care about her and want to maintain your friendship I’d be tempted to ask her more about this and explore because it’s so unusual to bring a child everywhere like this. Crackers!

You have handled this with total class @Senuousnotsensuous

In my group, on the second strike, someone would have started braying about BJs and anal sex and stuff just to establish the fricken ground rules.

Emily clearly didn't listen when the OP tried to explain to her originally that would be lovely to meet up without Milly! That is on Emily and hysterically crying down the phone to another in the friends group certainly isn't a way forward.
None of you should apologise to Emily and she needs to start saying NO to her spoilt brat of a daughter!

Yep, your friend is a bit thick - spa day with prosecco it’s so obviously adults only. Sounds like there are deeper issues but YANBU.

I was like Milly as a child but that’s because I was being molested by my grandad when my mum would leave us with her parents’ overnight.

I would have almighty meltdowns and not want her to go out but only when I knew I was going to be staying there.

She still went out and left me there. Even after I told her why.

Whatever is going on here is not Milly’s fault. Even if it’s purely because she knows she can bully her own mother into submission and there’s nothing else going on.
Emily is the adult here. She needs to get to the bottom of what is going on and sort it out.

The group of friends have no responsibility to accommodate this. Especially when Emily refuses to listen or respond.

Is there someone who could meet up with Emily while Milly is at school? (You mention she works part time).
Perhaps they could then try to ask whether everything is ok at home as maybe you have been insensitive saying not to bring Milly along to events and have now got concerns that maybe there is a reason she can't be left alone with dad. Perhaps have a woman's aid contact number ready.
If some posters are right and there is something going on at home hopefully Emily will then open up and you can support her in getting help. If however there isn't anything like this and it is she just can't no to the child this might make her think how her behaviour looks to others.

I’d have a reasonable guesss that Emily struggles with shame and/worthlessness. Milly coming is self protection “see her ( and my worth associated with being her mother) don’t see me!”

She could do with unpicking her need to hide behind the child sooner rather than later, for both their sakes.

YANBU!

At this rate, I fear Emily and Milly may turn out like my MIL and SIL. After 3 boys, MIL was over the moon to finally have her “princess”. MIL has always tried to make every basic task/activity a “mother-daughter experience”. SIL is now an adult with poor coping skills and heavily dependent upon her mother. It’s so sad to watch. The boys have all gone on to lead wonderful, full lives but SIL will always be the favourite by far.

YANBU

I'd not be happy either.

I love weekends with my DD (I stop at calling her my "bestie') but it's important to respect other adults wish not to have her there. If I felt I couldn't leave her then I'd not arrange something that weekend with my friends owing to childcare

I remember my Mum's friend being like this and always bringing her daughter. As a daughter "left behind" I always felt left out and upset I wasn't included or welcome like the other daughter (who I now see was never welcome).

I wouldn't block Emily as I wonder whether this will be the weekend that breaks the camels back and so one last chance but I would be very VERY CLEAR.

I've only read Op's posts so sorry if this has been said-but as well as bringing her daughter , she actually expected someone else to look after her whilst she had a treatment in peace.

😂😂😂

If Emily was worried about leaving Millie with Dad surely she would have organised to have her with one of the groups kids. As Op said it’s frustrating to get childcare for other kids for a childfree evening then Milly being allowed to come.

I think it the plan of only inviting her to events with the kids is good. She is clearly not interested in your side or leaving Milly. If she gets upset when you do adult meets without her you can look aghast and say “ but you bought Millie to the spa day” so she knows it’s her actions, nothing else.

I also like the issue of raising the possibility of abuse. Might help her see taking Millie everywhere is viewed as problematic because Millie’s a child not a mate. Help Emily see it’s viewed as off not good parenting and normal.

@Senuousnotsensuous I think emily needs to force her partner to do some of the childcare for the daughter!! emily must see that she is the only one who ever brings her child to meet ups!

Is Emily’s husband a pig who refuses to look after his child? Or can Emily just not bear to be parted for 2 hours? If that’s the case it’s really not healthy for a child long term, as she grows up she needs more independence!

If she thinks her daughter isn’t safe with her father then she needs to leave him.

I have a friend who would do similar. I’d be looking forward to a day of us shopping and having lunch and a natter together and she’d bring her daughter. She had a husband and two other kids at home so there was no real reason she had to come along. Even as a teenager she’d be there. I used to feel like a spare part as it ended up feeling like it was me tagging along with them.

Emily has a weird codependent attachment with her kid that she needs therapy for.

Emily is a parent, not Millys bestie.

You all have been unbelievably patient.
The one time this happened when I went out with a large group the woman was never included again.

This woman is selfish, rude and completely disinterested in whether you and your friends have a good time.

It is unbelievable how patient you have all been regarding a precious night out.

I would have lost interest a long time ago.
Selfish people aren't worth my time.

If I had arranged child care and was looking forward to child free adult conversation, I'd be pissed to find a fucking 7 year old there as well. The problem is down to Emily's inability to say no. It's not going to resolve until she does that so yeah personally I'd stop inviting her as well and bluntly tell her why. I wouldn't be concerned about her feelings as she has no consideration for others.

I have a friend who is going into a similar situation now. She most recently showed up at a wine tasting with her toddler in tow. But it seems her partner basically 'allows' her one afternoon (1-2 hours) per month child free time. He has never changed a nappy, never prepared a meal for the child, not woke up during the night, not a single thing. Despite conversations, she thinks it's normal.

The issue with leaving him is he would end up with joint custody so she'd have zero control over what happens in his time.

At the moment I'm taking it at face value that this is an Emily can't say no issue - especially as Millie wants to hang out with the adults even when other kids are there.