For telling my friend she was ridiculous to bring a 7 year old for a spa day!

[Senuousnotsensuous]

My friend Emily has a 7 year old daughter Milly who she brings every time we meet up either when it’s just the two of us or with a group of our other friends.

Emily insists Milly wants to come but it’s frustrating as we can never have a conversation without her giving her opinion or Milly takes over and Emily sits smiling proudly, she often comments on her daughter’s maturity and how she loves joining us.

We do occasionally get time when Milly is at school but any weekend meet ups are the same, Milly could stay with her dad at home but apparently gets very upset when she’s not invited so Emily gives in and lets her come. We have had a few occasions where we have met up in restaurants for a meal in the evenings and Milly has often made an appearance, the whole evening ends up revolving round her.

My other friends said they were fed up with this as well, we stopped inviting Emily as often but she noticed and was hurt.
I managed to get her to meet me one to one and asked if she was being persuaded by her husband to bring Milly and said I was concerned that she never seemed to get time to herself, she insisted that wasn’t the case and said she thought we loved seeing Milly.
I explained that no one else brought their kids along and wanted adult time and as much as we liked Milly it’s frustrating to get childcare for other kids for a childfree evening then Milly being allowed to come.
Its not fair on the other kids and changes the dynamic and means Emily has to leave early. We are sick of censoring the conversation and being unable to talk freely.
Emily agreed to stop bringing Milly along unless other kids were going to be present.

A few weeks ago we booked a spa day for today for 3 of us and Emily.
The package included a 25 minute massage treatment each and use of the facilities for 3 hours and afternoon tea with Prosecco.
I didn’t think not to ask Emily not to bring Milly as surely it’s common sense?!

Well the spa was booked for 10am and Emily brought Milly. We asked her how she possibly thought this would work and she said Milly wanted to use the pool and we could watch her when Emily had her massage.
Emily was told by staff she couldn’t being Milly into the spa and got very upset and complained that she’d paid for the day, her husband refused to pick her up saying he’d agreed to work overtime now, Milly started crying hysterically.

I had no sympathy and told Emily one of the reasons we booked a spa day was in the hope of actually spending time with her alone and we never considered she’d bring Milly. My other friends were equally as unsympathetic and said she had brought this on herself and it was her own fault Milly was upset and if lost the money.

Emily had to leave with Milly and looked absolutely devastated, she didn’t apologise though she just kept saying how ridiculous it was that the spa wouldn’t let Milly in or make any exceptions.

After she left we all agreed it was time to stop inviting Emily anywhere as she obviously wasn’t going to stop bringing Milly, we were throughly pissed off about the whole thing.

One friend has just sent me a message saying Emily has been crying down the phone for hours on her and thinks we were maybe a bit harsh and that Emily said she finds it hard to leave Milly because she gets so upset when she can’t come along. She thinks we should apologise for getting so frustrated with her today.

I think the whole situation is fucking bizarre and if Emily was a struggling single parent I could maybe understand it, I have had enough though and I’m not apologising, I have tried to chat about it but she’s not willing to listen.

AIBU for not being more understanding? It’s not just me, my other friends feel the same, even the friend who thinks we should apologise said she thinks it’s best we no longer invite Emily.
I don’t think Emily is ever going to take in what we are saying and she will keep bringing Milly because she can’t say no to her.

That is seriously disturbing!! Especially for the poor kid!

So Emily:

1. cant say no or put in any reasonable boundaries in place with her daughter
2. is selfish in respect of not respecting her friends boundaries around child free time.
3. doesn’t respect the boundaries/rules in adult establishments.
4. expects everyone to apologise for not being sympathetic in respect of the above and sobs hysterically (like her child - now where did she learn that from?) when she doesn’t get her own way.

Think I’ve covered everything?

In short she’s a shit parent and a shit friend.

Life is far too short to be pussy footing around people like her and her child.

I would send her a message to say that her expectations around her daughter being present at adult events is unreasonable and having already explained this to her, after the scenes at the spa I have no wish to be embarrassed like that again. So long, farewell…..

we’ve tried being diplomatic and saying things like, did Milly not want time with her daddy today?

@Senuousnotsensuous sod diplomacy. Sometimes you just have to say “kid, this isn’t something for you.” I’ve done it with my children and I’ve done it with friends’ children who try and hijack our time together.

”Milly, I’m chatting with your mum now. This is an adult conversation, not one that includes children. Off you go to your room/garden/watch telly; this is time for your mum and me as friends.

She's Milly's friend now @Senuousnotsensuous.

That poor child.😟

Emily is seriously fucking up that kid. Maybe send her an article about unhealthy enmeshment

The rules are, either everyone brings they're kids to a meet up or no one does, not fair on everyone else, adults only time

Wouldn’t a 7 year old be bored to tears hanging around with a bunch of adults anyway?! My mum used to drag me along to a lot of adult gatherings as a kid (partly for logistical reasons, partly because she thought I needed to be more “social”). I hated having to sit politely and make boring conversation when I would rather have been playing or reading.

Maybe it’s the mother that’s the problem?

This is exactly how it is with Milly, the whispering is the worst, it’s completely distracting during conversations and Emily is smiling and nodding along. Either that or Milly doesn’t understand what we are talking about and wants a more detailed explanation.

We have also suffered the crap jokes or explanations about something she’s seen on YouTube, being told off for swearing and on a couple of occasions been told to “watch this, watch this!” And it’s usually some sort of dance or gymnastic move.

It is hard not to just say shhh we are talking, I don’t want private conversations repeating and Milly takes a surprising amount of interest. She’s repeated things other friends have said that I’m sure they didn’t want anyone except Emily to know.

It’s not going to happen again, yesterday was the last time and that’s been agreed by the rest of the group. Emily can’t be trusted not to bring Milly again so she only gets invited to things where other children are present. The only issue with that is that Milly still wants to sit with her mum instead of playing with the other kids, last time she insisted it was because they are all too babyish, I think she believes she’s part of our group.

99% would, but the 1% that has been brought up to believe everything revolves around them will be adroit (with the enabling parent) in making everything about them. And if everyone is manipulated into accommodating that (by adjusting behaviour because the kid is there) a few times it becomes the norm. That poor girl, she’s going to have problems making friends because mummy can’t cope without her.

That is so selfish Emily actually expected you to watch her child while she had a massage , because of course when I have paid for a day spa and organised my own children to be looked after the two things I want to do plus look after someone else’s kid and have my relaxing afternoon spent and ruined by the child.

I actually don’t think you are angry enough. Emily is no friend to you

So what would the daughter think if her mum insisted on coming along with her to sleepovers and children's parties? It's just ridiculous. At least Emily knows now, though. It's up to her whether she wants to keep the friendship going. As it stands she's facing divorce and a child in therapy at some point in the future.

Brilliabt!

Brilliant even

I was all ready to give you a good yabuing but, fucking hell, it's definitely a yanbu.

Christ, what was she thinking !? That all the adult women in the spa wanted to get their nuddie parts rubbed in front of a seven year old?

Piss me, that's fuckin awkward/creepy/inappropriate/whatever/just hell no.

Was she going to give the kid her own glass of booze if she demanded one too.

Emily needs a fucking wake-up call.

At least Violet Elizabeth Bott went off and had adventures with William and his gang, without her mum tagging along!

I would drop this friend and ignore any future pleas for days out. She is not allowing you all the down time you deserve and are facilitating with your own childcare. The fact she wanted you all to look after her daughter in the pool whilst she got her massage would have been a straight fuck off from me. If you wanted to babysit you would have brought your own kids along.

OP, you are absolutely not being unreasonable! Fair enough that Emily doesn't want to socialise without Millie (that's her prerogative). But in that case, Emily needs to stay home instead of accepting invites to catch-ups which are clearly 'adults only'.

(And yes, even if it wasn't expressly spelt out to her, surely common sense should have told Emily that a trip to the spa, followed by drinking prosecco, was an 'adults only' occasion!)

It sounds like Emily has completely lost herself in motherhood. Unfortunately, my experience has been that it's extremely hard to reason with people like that. They are so besotted / obsessed with their kids, that they assume everyone else must feel the same, and if the other person pushes back, they take it as a personal attack. Sadly, they lack the empathy or self-awareness to understand how selfish their own behaviour actually is. In their eyes, the other person is the problem, for "not understanding", etc.

I posted here last year ago, regarding my (now former) best friend, who always insisted on bringing her children along, and meeting at a very kid-friendly venue, like a playground or soft play. I tried nicely pushing back, and requesting some adults only time - or at least meeting somewhere other than a sodding playground! Long story short, she threw a strop, and is now barely speaking to me. In her eyes, I am very much the villain for not catering to her children's preferences. I suspect that Emily may be of a similar mindset.

It's a shame but your friend can't draw appropriate boundaries with her child and clearly has a few issues saying no to her. She needs some therapy but she probably doesn't recognise the problem

I think you’ve been more than reasonable in trying to head this off before the spa day escalation. I’m not really one for spa days but I can’t think of anywhere where taking a 7 year old is acceptable either.

I know you have heard the dad encouraging Emily to go out without Milly but he arranged to work on the spa day. If he really wanted to make sure she went out with Milly, he would have made himself available for childcare. I suspect he could have worked out Milly might not be allowed in or that you wouldn’t look after her.
His behaviour on many occasions suggests something different to one comment made in front of you.

I think there is more behind this and the husband could be the key.

It seems like Emily and Milly are “enmeshed,” there are no boundaries between the two of them. It's not healthy obviously and Emily is not doing Milly any favours at all. Adult conversations are not appropriate for children and Emily wants Milly to be a part of the group even though she's a child. She needs to treat Milly like a child which involves saying no sometimes or the poor kid will struggle with relationships all her life. Well done for talking to her and insert your boundaries for the friendship. Hopefully this will help Emily to parent in a healthier way if she realises something is really off with constantly bringing her daughter when it's not appropriate.

Hopefully the less time she spends with you the more that will alter.

We have a friend like this - we used to see them regularly but have distanced ourselves because of it. Their daughter is the centre of the universe, gets taken everywhere with them and oh dear god the social media…. 50 photos of them going for a pretty routine walk. Reality is going to hit this kid like a tonne of bricks (if their parents ever let them get there!)

YANBU!

This sounds like it's more a case if a weak-willed parent against a strong-willed child.