For telling my friend she was ridiculous to bring a 7 year old for a spa day!

[Senuousnotsensuous]

My friend Emily has a 7 year old daughter Milly who she brings every time we meet up either when it’s just the two of us or with a group of our other friends.

Emily insists Milly wants to come but it’s frustrating as we can never have a conversation without her giving her opinion or Milly takes over and Emily sits smiling proudly, she often comments on her daughter’s maturity and how she loves joining us.

We do occasionally get time when Milly is at school but any weekend meet ups are the same, Milly could stay with her dad at home but apparently gets very upset when she’s not invited so Emily gives in and lets her come. We have had a few occasions where we have met up in restaurants for a meal in the evenings and Milly has often made an appearance, the whole evening ends up revolving round her.

My other friends said they were fed up with this as well, we stopped inviting Emily as often but she noticed and was hurt.
I managed to get her to meet me one to one and asked if she was being persuaded by her husband to bring Milly and said I was concerned that she never seemed to get time to herself, she insisted that wasn’t the case and said she thought we loved seeing Milly.
I explained that no one else brought their kids along and wanted adult time and as much as we liked Milly it’s frustrating to get childcare for other kids for a childfree evening then Milly being allowed to come.
Its not fair on the other kids and changes the dynamic and means Emily has to leave early. We are sick of censoring the conversation and being unable to talk freely.
Emily agreed to stop bringing Milly along unless other kids were going to be present.

A few weeks ago we booked a spa day for today for 3 of us and Emily.
The package included a 25 minute massage treatment each and use of the facilities for 3 hours and afternoon tea with Prosecco.
I didn’t think not to ask Emily not to bring Milly as surely it’s common sense?!

Well the spa was booked for 10am and Emily brought Milly. We asked her how she possibly thought this would work and she said Milly wanted to use the pool and we could watch her when Emily had her massage.
Emily was told by staff she couldn’t being Milly into the spa and got very upset and complained that she’d paid for the day, her husband refused to pick her up saying he’d agreed to work overtime now, Milly started crying hysterically.

I had no sympathy and told Emily one of the reasons we booked a spa day was in the hope of actually spending time with her alone and we never considered she’d bring Milly. My other friends were equally as unsympathetic and said she had brought this on herself and it was her own fault Milly was upset and if lost the money.

Emily had to leave with Milly and looked absolutely devastated, she didn’t apologise though she just kept saying how ridiculous it was that the spa wouldn’t let Milly in or make any exceptions.

After she left we all agreed it was time to stop inviting Emily anywhere as she obviously wasn’t going to stop bringing Milly, we were throughly pissed off about the whole thing.

One friend has just sent me a message saying Emily has been crying down the phone for hours on her and thinks we were maybe a bit harsh and that Emily said she finds it hard to leave Milly because she gets so upset when she can’t come along. She thinks we should apologise for getting so frustrated with her today.

I think the whole situation is fucking bizarre and if Emily was a struggling single parent I could maybe understand it, I have had enough though and I’m not apologising, I have tried to chat about it but she’s not willing to listen.

AIBU for not being more understanding? It’s not just me, my other friends feel the same, even the friend who thinks we should apologise said she thinks it’s best we no longer invite Emily.
I don’t think Emily is ever going to take in what we are saying and she will keep bringing Milly because she can’t say no to her.

OMG, can you link the thread?

We know the dad refused to pick her up because he had work.
So however the conversation went it was not I will support you going without Milly by looking after her.

Unless you are Emily you do not how the conversation went either so how do you know he is not to blame?
He is certainly to blame for not picking up Milly.

I would just stop inviting Emily. The fact she phoned one of the group mithering about it tells me all I need to know. She is a massive pita and won’t see your point of view now or in the future. If there was any hope for her she would be calling you all to apologise not crying about it. Let her get on with it and don’t invite her again.

She’s a loon or extraordinarily dim.

Don’t apologise.

The Dad may well have said he’d look after Milly.

He may well be equally fed up the Milly is carted round everywhere and decided on Emily’s own head be it so arranged some overtime to let her face the consequences of her choices.

Some women are co-dependent on their kids and it’s very likely that it’s Emily who is encouraging her to come among.

I would be concerned that there could be issues with dad though.
It could be that he is unsafe or refuses to look after his own child.

The fact that he refused to pick his DD up knowing it would mean his wife couldn’t attend her spa day is quite telling.

Could you have Milly over for a sleepover whilst you and Emily go for a few drinks and speak to her about her DH?
She might be more willing to open up if Milly isn’t there/has she’s had a few drinks.

Edit: I realise that DH was working.

I definitely think there are either issues with DH still or that Emily is co-dependent on her DD.

YANBU at all

Emily is actually damaging her daughter by allowing her to run the show like this, devoting all of her attention to her and never saying 'no', and treating her like she's much older than she actually is. This will not end well for either of them.

God, that sounds BEYOND annoying. A former cousin of mine brought her children with her everywhere even though she had a perfectly willing husband - I basically never saw her alone again after she had kids. For seven years. It was a total PITA. I felt irritated all over again when I read your post!

I love, love, love that Emily wasn't allowed to bring Milly into the spa! HAHHAHAHAAAA!

I agree that the only solution to this stress is not to invite Emily to any adult meet-ups, ever. She sounds unusually resistant to leaving her child at home. She's full of excuses about Milly being upset, but the truth is that she's so unhealthily enmeshed with her child that she simply doesn't want to go anywhere without her. I bet she knew full well that the spa doesn't allow children, but thought they would cave to keep a customer happy.

I don't see how you can have adult time with someone who is bound and determined to bring her child along, no matter what. You'll have to stop inviting Emily or you'll never enjoy those adult meetups again. Can you only invite Emily to all-kids outings? And just never mention to her the adult ones? If she suggests something, just say no, unless she agrees to leave Milly at home. Say it's not fair on the people who need to get babysitters to pay for that and then not have adult time.

I have a friend who became unhealthily attached to her dog. She refused to leave it at home alone, for one second, and our social life ended up being planned around the dog. If she went somewhere she couldn't take the dog, she could get a babysitter for it.

Some people are just unhinged, and it's best that you don't sacrifice your leisure time getting stressed over it. Sometimes people make such pains of themselves that it's so much nicer not to see them.

The fact that he refused to pick his DD up knowing it would mean his wife couldn’t attend her spa day is quite telling.

I understand the point generally, but I don't think it is in this case. He had agreed to go into work for the overtime because his wife had decided/insisted on taking their daughter with her to a spa/pool. Imagine it would be quite difficult to turn around and say to your bosses that you had to leave because your wife wanted a spa day without her child.

The fact that he refused to pick his DD up knowing it would mean his wife couldn’t attend her spa day is quite telling.

It's tell us he was at work. As his wife and child had arranged a day out the poor bloke organised some overtime and now is being accused of either being a domestic abuser or Jimmy Saville.

Emily has displayed clear signs of being a selfish moron who doesn't care how her actions make her friends feel, they have tried gently talking to her about this but she steamrolled ahead with what she wanted anyway and when the consequences of her actions but her on the arse she starts sobbing and wanting apologies. Nah, dump her and leave her and Millie to be joined at the hip forevermore.

Some women are co-dependent on their kids and it’s very likely that it’s Emily who is encouraging her to come among

Totally agree with this. One of my friends is like this- her husband is perfectly capable of looking after their son (he's not abusive, weird or incapable at all) and yet she spoils her son and gets him everything he wants and takes him everywhere she goes. I think in her mind she sees it as a way of expressing love but its not, its turning him into a spoilt brat and life will be very hard for him when he becomes an adult and realises the rest of the world wont bend to his demands. I cant stand being around her son because he's so demanding and throws a tantrum every time he doesnt get what he wants immediately. It's difficult because I dont feel comfortable pointing it out and I suspect it wont go down well. As a result, I have distanced myself from her because we can never meet up or talk about anything significant because he is always listening and interrupting with his demands and then going off in a pouting sulk when he doesnt get his way. Its sad because my friend used to be such fun and such a great friend but what can you do?

@Kitchensinktoday I'm not sure if this is the thread that @TheaBrandt1 meant but it's one that has always stuck in my head!

Initially I did wonder if it was about the OPs friend again but the toddler involved would be a pre teen now (and hopefully not being taken everywhere).

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/amibeingunreasonable/2998359-AIBU-You-dont-bring-a-toddler-to-a-hen-do

Does Milly have friends her own age?
I'm wondering if because she struggles with her own friendships she thinks of the adults as being her friends, and Emily, knowing that, is struggling to upset her by saying that they aren't.

I'm coming from having a situation when my oldest was about 10yo when she was going through friendship issues at school, and I think beginning to think of herself as grown up.
If I had friends round, or was talking with friends she started not wanting to go and play with the children (even if they were her age and she got on well) but stay and chat, as though she was an adult. If I suggested she went off, she returned very quickly and started joining in again.
It was really irritating, and I ended up avoiding going to things where the children would be included, but she'd say pitifully "but they're my friends too". Because I knew how hard she was finding it, it was really difficult to tell her she couldn't come (but I did, obviously)

Now dd has often found she gets on better with older children, but this isn't a sign of maturity; it's actually a sign of social immaturity because older children and adults make allowances that peers don't make.
But I've often seen parents thinking that it's really a sign of how advanced they are.

As she got more friends she grew out of the need of thinking my friends were hers too. She'll come and say hello, assess the situation and stay when it was appropriate and leave if it wasn't. But it took some effort - the easiest would have been to let her join in at the time and think she had adult friends - however that would have been worse for her in the long run.

One friend has just sent me a message saying Emily has been crying down the phone for hours on her and thinks we were maybe a bit harsh and that Emily said she finds it hard to leave Milly because she gets so upset when she can’t come along. She thinks we should apologise for getting so frustrated with her today.

If this one friend wants to, she can apologise and she can spend her free time with Emily in the Milly fan-club!

How many of the rest of you does that leave?

I see it completely differently - I think he arranged to work overtime because Emily assured him that Milly was coming with her, so it was fine for him to work.

Ridiculous that it’s always the man’s fault even if minimal evidence this is the case! Suspect there are more mum bores around than abusive relationships.

All of you need to block Emily. You've given her every chance, reasoned with her but she continues to disrespect you all.

Her and Milly can go it alone.

If my bestie bought her 8yo DD to a spa day, I'd be fucking furious.

She and I try and go to on a spa day about once a year. It's expensive, but gorgeous and a huge treat. I look forward to it every year.
Fortunately, the one we favour is for over 16s only. I think most are, which is why Emily and Milly got turned away! Good!

Emily needs to give her head a wobble. While I'm sure she thinks Milly is a lovely child - and I'm sure she is! Adults need their childfree time. Like others have said, having a kid around massively changes the dynamic and the conversation. Many adult conversations just aren't appropriate for kids.

It's quite telling how Emily can't say no to Milly when she's bawling and crying and then she does the exact same thing to your friend down the phone op despite being told clearly not to bring Milly to every event.
Demanding an apology, she's lost her mind.

I can understand where Emily is coming from…..to a certain extent. I was someone who never really enjoyed leaving the kids to go out. But - and it’s a big but - then I adjusted what I did and where I went and with whom I made arrangements. So if I’d been asked on the spa day, I’d have politely declined on the grounds of childcare - but I wouldn’t have dreamed of taking the child there. I think Emily wants her cake and to eat it, basically. And probably the only way you get that across is by being direct and blunt about it. “Perfectly understand if you’d rather spend the day with Millie instead, but if you’re happy to come on your own then we are going to X…..”.

OMG I just read all of OP's posts on these 2 threads. Absolute insanity!!

Are you sure her husband doesn't have a part in this. It does seen very odd that she takes her child everywhere, maybe he is controlling and she doesn't have the option of going out alone. Maybe he is abusive and she is scared to leave her child with him. Maybe your friend or her daughter have severe anxiety and struggle with separation. She was stupid to bring a 7 year old to a spa which does make me think there could be more going on here, surely everyone knows spas aren't for children. I would just give up on the idea you will see her alone at weekends but continue to be her friend and only meet either during school hours or when you are happy for her child to be there.

Things like this just escalate. A place where I worked o e women used to bring her teenage daughter on our informal nights out while another woman brought her mother. Honestly is just spoiled the whole dynmatics. Some people liked them being there and some didn't. I was one who didn't. I couldn't understand why they woukd even want to join in with everyone talking shop, as you do.

Yep, been there done that. She won't change OP.

Ex friend also did it on a 30th big girls night celebration, that was the last straw.

Bet they have matching outfits too.

Quite right!