Daughter won’t let her BIL come to the family home

[Proie]

It’s the family home but my youngest daughter helps pays half the bills so the boundaries are blurred. Daughter has been helping out since my ex left a few years ago. She is an angel.

My youngest daughter had a falling out with her BIL due to the way he was speaking to her younger brother (also lives at home). The BIL is married to my eldest daughter and they live in the town over.

BIL wouldn’t apologise. I didn’t witness anything, so stuck out it of it. Youngest daughter now ignores her BIL. She now thinks as the house is her personal sanctuary/personal space she gets a say in who comes around. I am not opposed to this in theory. I am not very social so it doesn’t really impact me. Eldest daughter obviously wants to come around.

I am piggy in the middle.

It won’t be for much longer as mortgage is ALMOST paid off.

Who is in the wrong? Should I put my foot down?

Maybe your son has better instincts than you. He clearly saw who and what SIL is from the start.
Maybe he also knew that you are to conflict averse to protect him so he tried to protect himself.
You need to step up.

If I were your younger DD, and you insisted on allowing an abusive bully into the house, I'd move out. Surely she will be able to afford a flat or house share for less then half the cost of running a large family home, and she deserves to feel safe in her own home. I suspect the only thing keeping her with you is the need to protect her child brother, as clearly you are not willing to.

To be quite honest, I can barely believe your response. Even though OP is clearly on the side of her older daughter and her horrible DH, she has said:

'Youngest dd has put her life on hold. She plans to move out when the mortgage is paid. She has been a lifesaver. I told her she didn’t need to sacrifice so much but she wants me to keep the house for my retirement.'

'I do know if things hadn’t gone tits up for me youngest daughter would have chosen to live in London with more freedom.'

The younger daughter is paying half the mortage and half of all bills. She's only living there rather than moving out to help her mum so she doesn't lose the house. She will move out when the mortage is paid off. When you talk of the many years her younger DD lived there with her mum paying for everything, she would have been a child! Do you expect children to pay rent and bills? Her older sister also lived there for years with her mum paying for everything but I suppose you think that is a different situation?

The older daughter and her DH don't contribute anything to OP's household finances. You haven't anything to say about the older daughter's DH losing his temper and 'crossing a line' with OP's 15 year old son (confirmed by an adult who was present and who is not a member of the family). It seems that it's only the younger daughter doing the right thing to help her mum get out of a financial mess and to protect her brother from her sister's DH's nasty temper.

The op is more realistic in her posts in that she has said that the daughter is only there because of the mess her mother is in. She would be in London if not for her mother’s situation. The mother needs the daughter’s income to afford the house for her and her son. The op has said the daughter has actively put her life on hold. The sweetener is she lives with her brother and the dogs, which is really a stretch. If she left tomorrow, the op would massively struggle to pay her bills and support her son.

The friend of op saw the ‘crossing of the line’ by the bil the op has ignored and wont elaborate on. She knows he was in the wrong but will say nothing and do nothing to protect her son. This makes me think that knowing this would mean there would be no debate at all.

It seems that the op is passively walking through life and repeatedly burying her head in the sand.

I think your DD needs to stop enabling you financially and go and live her own life, and you need to downsize and now live a life you can afford. Then if you want to entertain people you can, but she doesn’t have to have fuckwits in her home.

I agree, however that won't protect OPs underage son. Which is probably why she doesn't do it, she's looking out for her younger brother because she can see OP won't protect him.

OP you massively under reacted to the incident, and you're still much too passive about sorting it out. Maybe think about that.

That.

Much as OP has caused to be grateful to her DD for paying 'rent' which covers half the bills and means that OP keeps her home, this has only been a short term arrangement, and the house is OP's, not DD's. It seems that DD is using the rent to buy power over OP 's decisions.

Without knowing exactly what happened between the son and son in law, we really don't know how serious this incident was. But it seems that the other daughter is paying the price for not having her sister's power.

An independent witness agreed with younger DD that BIL 'crossed the line', with a minor child in that child's home. So it was serious enough. OP needs to protect her child in his own home, and she isn't.

Seems to me like it's much more your younger daughter's home than your eldest's at this point. Your eldest has her own home and she isn't paying towards yours.

In your position I would pick a side. I'd tell your elder daughter that whilst you'd love to have her round, her husband was out of order and should apologise, and until he does you aren't going to force the rest of your family to tolerate him in their home. Especially your younger daughter who is making a huge financial contribution towards your home and feels very strongly about this.

You can't stay neutral in this situation because it's one or the other. Either your son in law is welcome in your house or he isn't. If he isn't, your eldest daughter is pissed off. If he is, your youngest daughter is pissed off.

Since you have to piss one of them off, you take the side of the person who hasn't done anything wrong.

My brother and sister in law have behaved horribly to me and my husband. My in laws have tried to stay neutral and it has affected our relationship with them.

Have you actually said in plain language that your son in law needs to apologise and that if he does you can all move on?

In my experience, waiting for someone to apologise doesn't usually work because nobody likes apologising. So if the apology is important and it hasn't been forthcoming, you need to tell the other people concerned that you expect an apology, and spell out the consequences if you don't get one. To some extent this is your eldest DD's problem to solve. He's her husband. She brought him into the family. He has upset everyone. She needs to get him to apologise, and if he won't do it for her sake, maybe her marriage won't last anyway.

My brother in law tried to get his wife to stop being a twat and she refused. So then he agreed to take her side and pretend that she's not being a twat and her behaviour is perfectly reasonable, and now we're all basically just hoping they will eventually divorce.

You said that other people witnessed BIL being hostile to your son, does your eldest daughter disbelieve them and your son?

If she knows her husband crossed the line, why isn’t she insisting that he apologises and promises to be cordial in future. Also, by staying away because of the tension she is punishing you and her siblings for something her husband did.

I don’t blame your daughter. He was big enough to run his mouth in someone else’s home which is incredibly rude, but not big enough to apologise. It’s unfortunate that a rift has formed but that is entirely down to BIL and also your eldest for turning a blind eye to his shitty behaviour

Much as OP has caused to be grateful to her DD for paying 'rent' which covers half the bills and means that OP keeps her home, this has only been a short term arrangement, and the house is OP's, not DD's. It seems that DD is using the rent to buy power over OP 's decisions.

Without knowing exactly what happened between the son and son in law, we really don't know how serious this incident was. But it seems that the other daughter is paying the price for not having her sister's power.

She isn't there for her benefit and paying keep to her mother to cover her costs. She is there for her mother's benefit and Op has been perfectly clear on that. She could be elsewhere living her life but isn't because she is the only reason her mother and brother who is still a child haven't lost their home, and you are completely dismissing that. She's not just covering her keep, she's also covering the costs of her younger brother because she is paying half of everything when three people live there, so she is actually subsidising Op and paying more than her fair share.

If it was proper rent, she'd have a protected tenancy, and she'd have the right to quiet enjoyment of her home. Presumably for the cost of half the mortgage and bills of at least a 3 bed, if not 4, she'd be living in her own space with the ability to refuse entry to whomever she wants, even in London. Except she's not. Because she is helping Op. Frankly, even if she was just paying keep to her mother, she still gets a say over who comes into her home. It might be Op's house because it's name on the deeds but it is DD and DS' home too.

Eldest DD isn't "paying the price" for not having youngest DD's "power". She's "paying the price" for allowing her partner to be abusive towards her brother who is a child. She's a grown woman, she can visit without him. If she doesn't understand why him being there is an issue when he hasn't apologised, she is part of the problem and is "paying the price" for her own bad decisions.

Oh dear. I imagine you thought you sounded marvellously “No nonsense” when you said this. But all you have done is made it clear that you either haven’t properly read, or properly understood, the OP’s posts.

There is no “housekeeping” here. In fact without OP’s daughter, there would BE no bloody house! She is not a young girl in her first job whose mother is letting her stay at home while she saves up, and her mother is not simply asking for a token few pounds to cover some of the bills and shopping. OP literally cannot afford the house without her. The daughter CAN afford to leave at any time. She could leave at any time - and might well do so if OP takes your clueless advice to go all Peggy Mitchell on her.

So it’s OP’s house. Then she can bloody well pay for it. If she “puts her foot down” as she suggested she might in her first post, she needs to do so in the knowledge that her daughter might pick up both feet and use them to walk out, taking her vital financial contribution with her. Probably irreparably damaging their relationship in the process. And in the meantime, OP has to find somewhere else for her and her teenage son to live.

But hey, that’s not a problem, right? Because at least OP won’t have to “take orders”.

Because its worse than she's letting on. It's clear OP prefers her eldest daughter and feels youngest daughter and her son should suck up being treated like shit by her son in law in order to facilitate visiting.

How about you visit your eldest daughter instead op. She does not have to come to you.

Based on having read the whole thread, I’d say your dd’s husband shouldn’t be allowed round, he’s made your ds and youngest dd unhappy and it’s their home. Trouble is, you risk isolating your eldest dd. Is it a good relationship? If he’s ’crossed the line’ with your ds and she isn’t happy to spend time without him (does he not allow her?), I’d ask her to come alone.

Much as OP has caused to be grateful to her DD for paying 'rent' which covers half the bills and means that OP keeps her home, this has only been a short term arrangement, and the house is OP's, not DD's. It seems that DD is using the rent to buy power over OP 's decisions.

Then OP has a choice. She can either accept that she needs this “rent” - in fact, cannot manage without it - and accept the say in decisions that comes with a vital contribution. Or she can say “I appreciate what you have done, but I still consider this my house and SIL is welcome” and risk her daughter voting with her feet. What she does NOT get is a magic option three where she gets to make all the decisions and her daughter meekly says “Yes mummy”, but still coughs up.

What did your SIL do and say to your Son OP? Without this information. It's impossible to know who is in the right or wrong.

Exactly this.
It’s impossible to even try to advise you properly without this information OP.

I think op won’t share because it’s likely really bad.

Id the dh of her daughter had just called him a Fucking twat or something she would have said so because people would be like ok that was whenever ago he should apologise but people need to get over it.

So his crossed the line a friend of ops says so his said something that was personal like insulting someone for wearing glasses or being genuinely low iq, not having a dad or no friends, telling someone with thoughts nobody would miss them. You know proper sucker punch verbally.

I agree that a lot depends on the seriousness of what the SIL said/did to the teenager which we don’t know. “Crossed a line” is very vague and subjective.

Exactly.
Maybe the friend can’t cope with any swearing at all. Maybe ‘fucking twat’ crosses the line for them @UndermyShoeJoe?

Maybe but as I said if it was only that bad I’d imagine op would have said what the issue was in the opening post. She’s been asked a few times now and hasn’t said which leads me to think it’s someone everyone would be even more shocked about her not picking a side.

The young son of 15 has kept out of this man’s way for a while. As it’s his sisters husband, I’m presuming he’s been in his life for quite a while already.
so the son has chosen over a course of his young adolescence to keep himself to himself when the BIL is around- why is this?
due to the ages I’m presuming the BIL is probably late 20’s and a bit of a dick and has probably teased/bantz! (Bullied!!) your son before the latest episode- did your son stand up for himself this time and the BIL didn’t like it???

OP you have a choice here. You either cost up to your oldest daughter and her ‘challenging’ husband’ or you maintain a relationship with your younger two children.

home should be a safe space for you son. If you walk all over his feelings and let this man into the house then you choose him over your son. That will have echoes through the rest of your relationship with your son, and your younger daughter. They will see you as either weak and ineffective, or as a traitor.

your daughter might be in a rough place with her bully husband. But all you can do is tell her you are there for her - but you also have to be a present parent to your underage child. He is your priority because he is still a child and you have to provide him with a safe home.

have you considered some parenting classes? You don’t seem to be thinking about the boy here at all.

I'm fine with swearing but a grown man who called my child a fucking twat wouldn't be welcome in my home.