Council housing priority - council advising to wait until Ballifs turn up

[Blueotter22]

Hi All,

Im posting here for traffic really to see if anyone else has experienced this or has been able to challenge it. I’m at a loss on how I can support my Mum with this.

My mum has advanced Alzheimer’s (early onset) and is cared for 24/7 by my SIL & Brother. My angel SIL quit her job (as a care home worker) to care for my Mam full time, she does everything for her (personal care, feeding, medication, appointments etc). My SIL & Brother have rented a house from SIL’s brother for a number of years, rent is reasonable and they’ve managed just about but now her brother is moving back home from overseas and would like his house back. SIL has her heart set on a council house because of their low income they will struggle with the private rent but also the area they live is typically flats to rent which wouldn’t be suitable for Mums mobility needs. They would also like the security that having a council house brings as they have a pet and want the stability of not having to move again.
Which is understandable, as they have no savings, wouldn’t really ever be in a position to buy and brother works a low paid job which is a struggle to provide for 3 adults.

Mum has been rejected for benefits due to a super complicated and I think unfair situation, she was basically living in America with her husband when she became unwell and was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. We (& she) wanted her to come back to the UK but husband insisted they were staying in America as he worked there, he wasn’t aware of how Alzheimer’s disease progresses and sadly she deteriorated quite quickly during Covid and he couldn’t travel to bring her home. He admitted he could no longer care for her and brought her back to the UK and basically promised he would sell up in America and come back to help care for her, but yeah..he didn’t. He’s stayed there and now my Mum hasn’t been able to access any financial support because technically she’s been out of the country. The rules are the rules so it’s just something we’ve had to accept. My SIL therefore hasn’t even had any carers allowance or support.

So the issue is, the council are refusing to acknowledge that my Mum exists basically because she doesn’t have benefits. Despite turning up to the house unannounced and witnessing how unwell she is. The housing officer has told my SIL that they won’t be considered a priority until she is taken to court and ballifs attend the property.

SIL brother has served them a section 21 and said they have until X date to leave, but obviously he doesn’t want to take them to court or get the ballifs. It will cost so much! I just think it’s absolutely crazy that this is the actual advice given? Pay court fees, pay ballifs just to prove you need housing?
Also, they said they’ll likely find them temporary accommodation first before they are able to bid. I just don’t see how this is reasonable for a woman who is highly distressed a lot of the time anyway, can’t manage stairs, needs constant supervision and I’m just so overwhelmed trying to understand how I can help them.

I can’t believe this is actually a thing? Part of me was thinking my SIL might have got the wrong end of the stick but she is adamant that is the advice from the housing officer?! 😳

I am going to write to their MP and I’ve googled so much about this but has anyone experienced a similar situation and is there some kind of legislation or something I can use to write to the council?

That’s been the advice for years. If you leave before you are formally evicted you are intentionally making yourself homeless in the eyes of the council. As you have said, it costs landlords thousands and leaves tenants in such an uncertain situation. No good for anyone

Yup, if you leave before the eviction, then you're 'intentionally homeless' and the council have no responsibility to house.

Leave when actually evicted, then you're unintentionally homeless, and within their remit for housing.

It is shitty, but it is pretty standard and has been for a long time now.

I feel embarrassed I didn’t know this!! I’ve historically privately rented but I’m a home owner now so I have no experience of needing social housing. This is wild, so how are you supposed to know where you’re going when the ballifs turn up? Would they have to take my Mam to the council office? She is very unwell and doesn’t do well in public (screams, shouts, grabs people, calls people names, hits people when distressed)

Your brother and sister in law might have their heart set on a council house but they aren't likely to get one for a decade or more, even if they do get housed by the council. There is an extraordinary shortage of council property. That's why they only house people who are actually being evicted on that day, not people whose landlords want the property back. Can't you see why that would be the case?
It's unfortunate that your mum can't access support here, but if you're thinking that DB and SIL will be housed along with your mum it's by no means assured. Emergency and temporary accommodation is pretty poor, could be a shared hotel room with no cooking facilities.
Badically your DB, SIL and her brother need to come up with a better plan. Can you (between you as a family) financially help your DB and SIL afford a private rental? Can the brother wait until they find somewhere? I find it very difficult to understand why your SIL has given up her job to care for a woman who isn't her mum. She's screwed herself financially and in terms of access to decent housing by doing that.
Does anyone have power of attorney for your mum? Have you had legal advice regarding accessing her assets from her marriage in the states?

Gosh what a mess. I mean, you're right to accept the rules re. your mum because she's not 'technically' been out of the country, she has been out of the country and it's shit of her DH to dump her back here and expect everyone else to sort it out. That's not on the council/taxpayer any more than it would be for them to fund another person from abroad turning up here and wanting benefits. I know it feels different as it's your mum, but the DH should be responsible. Given how shit he's been, it is indeed lovely of your SIL to step in and look after her, but however much her heart is set on a council house, they'll have to join the queue and it's a long one. Enough genuinely homeless people are in that queue that others who want to score those points are having to go through the charade of appearing to be homeless in order to get serious consideration. What's the alternative? Them move somewhere cheaper that your brother can pay the rent? Club together as a family and cover the rent? Let them move in with you or someone else related with a stake in helping them? Somehow get the husband to step up to his financial obligations for your mother? I don't know divorces work in such scenarios but if he has any money or conscience at all, that's where the rent should be coming from. It's an awful situation and I understand your distress, but I'd be surprised if the system can flex to accommodate your mum if she's been away long enough not to qualify and if she's in for a long haul. That kind of care costs a lot and council houses are in short supply except for in places that they probably don't want to live. In the short-term though, yeah, bailiffs and temp accommodation are the likely outcome to be weathered.

I'd advise you go on to the Shelter website. They have information on the procedure for eviction and what happens when and are a trusted source. The local authority won't be ignoring your mum because she's not on benefits. It will most likely be because after her years abroad they are arguing they don't have a duty. I strongly recommend Shelter for advice.

I’m so sorry about her diagnosis OP and I think her husband’s behaviour was disgusting.

What would happen if your SiL went back to work and Social Services were made aware no one was available to provide care for your mum? Surely they would have to find a place in a care home for her at that point. At which time your brother and SiL could rent a one-bed place privately with two incomes. Or is that an oversimplification?

Agree with others, this is standard procedure and they might want a council house but they’re very unlikely to get one anytime soon. Where we are they’d be waiting 4/5 years for a 2 bed, 9/10 for a 3 bed.

Best case in the meantime they’d be put into temporary accommodation which will not be the property SIL has her heart set on.

Firstly I am sorry to hear about this situation and it sounds very stressful. I know a little about council housing allocations and without writing an essay - the long and short of is a bit bleak. Council housing is incredibly rare now. What has happened since 80s has snowballed into an emergency situation. Post war, England invested in housing that councils owned. The social rent paid went into the councils banks and councils were able to reinvest and build new homes - a nice, virtuous circle that both paid off the investment of building homes and also creating funds to build new homes. But. In 80s the then government stopped this - they ruled that any rents paid into councils form social housing were forbidden to be reinvested into housing. They also allowed council tenants to buy housing at reduced prices, taking council homes out of couchils owneshops and into private ownership. Multiple these factors alone by hundreds of thousands and the housing stock over past 4 decades have massively reduced. It’s only last year central government has reversed this and allowe councils to reinvest rents into building new homes. Add loss of homes (100,000’s + council homes bought by owners + sold on for profit now being rent back to councils for private rent costs) + housing costs in private sector soaring (in some places over 1000% over past 15 years) = an emergency. Plus Central government since 2010 has slashed money to councils which in top of rising costs has meant there is less money to build homes. Add Brexit and labour shortages (construction), inflation etc - the construction industry that builds homes over past 5 years has been hit hard - prices going up massively. There is a HUGE backlog of people needing council homes that goes back decade or more. There just isn’t enough homes (council) for demand. Advice given in some areas is that waiting lists are over 10 years - families have been living in temp accommodation for over a decade. Waiting lists are in thousands when there aren’t enough homes. Decisions made to stop state from investing i social housing and reliance on private sector plus NO regulation (America and Europe regulate rents and housing) here in Uk has turned housing market into a way to increase income - housing is seen as a financial vehicle over a home. This is a long email to share - it is very unlikely you / your mum will be housed. To even get a whiff of possibility you will need to be evicted - and have that as evidence. I’m sorry to be brutal but it’s a reality hundreds of thousands of people have been and are facing here. The govebemabt and mayors across England are seeking to find ways to introduce new laws that if homes (100,000 +) are left empty for years (in many places in London 20+ years as these are just financial assets for owners) they can force owners to sell at reduced prices. I wish you well and hope you find a way through but it’s highly unlikely X

It sounds as though the council are using the benefit eligibility to establish habitual residence. You have to be "habitually resident" in the UK and show that you intend to remain in order to claim benefits.

It seems harsh, but I suspect it's aimed at preventing people living and paying tax abroad for decades but returning when they need housing and/or social care, which is understandable.

I had a client years ago who was furious when he found the council wouldn't give him a flat when he'd just come back from 40 years working in the US, and when I told him he wasn't eligible for benefits either he really went into one.

I'm a bit out of touch with this now as I work on a project where habitual residence has to be established prior to referral, but iirc acceptable evidence of habitual residence and intention to remain included things like having a bank account here, registering with a doctor and stuff like that. CAB or similar should be able to help, and there's probably useful stuff online.

Yeah that's the way it is unfortunately, they only help you at the very last minute. There is lots of good advice on a Facebook forum called Tenancy Matters UK. Seems like a ridiculous system but I guess there is a real shortage of housing so they want you to stay put for as long as possible. Horrible for tenants and landlords.

Your mother is now habitually resident in the UK as she has no intention to return to the US. You need to appeal the decision on her behalf. If you are out of time, one year and one month from the decision, seek advice from a law centre or CAB with a specialist benefits caseworker. In fact you should probably do that anyway to get help with an appeal.

Can they not live in the house with the brother?

SIL needs to be realistic in terms of her desire for a council house. She won't get one just by saying the landlord wants the property back. It could be years in temporary accomodation, and the council often house into private rented accommodation, and/or accomodation a long way away that is somewhere they wouldn't want to live.

Can your family not help by being guarantors and helping with a deposit for a private rental?

Thank you everyone, it feels really overwhelming for me even to navigate and support.

My mam was only in the states for 5/6 years, before then she did work in the UK most of her adult life - ironically she worked for years in dementia care herself and sadly was diagnosed at just 53 years old. We didn’t expect how quickly she would become so unwell. I guess where I feel really stuck is that she used all of her savings and money to put into the house they purchased in America. Her husband still lives in that house that is probably worth 600-700k with mortgage nearly paid off. I suggested that he sell the house in America and downsize so that she can take “her” share and they can buy a property that’s suitable and live there. He has power of attorney and won’t divorce her, and has told us he won’t sell the house as that’s his retirement plan and inheritance for our youngest sister (half sibling, aged 20). He does pay my SIL a small “wage” for caring for her full time with no respite other than when I can visit to care for my Mam which isn’t as often as I would like to as I live 200 miles away with my child and work full time. It’s really sad, because we always had such a great relationship with him and since he’s left her I feel like he’s just waiting for her to die and be done with us all.

When I suggested about selling the house he flipped and now won’t speak to me saying I’m being ridiculous for even suggesting. I even suggested he buy the house in my youngest sibling (his daughters) name so that it’s “her property” to inherit.

I naively assumed that by them caring for such a vulnerable woman, and we don’t want to pursue a care home for her, that they would be a priority (plus husband full well knows he would have to pay for her care home fees which would be 5xs more than what he’s paying SIL).

Its just a mess really, I think SIL has a friend who was housed in a new build council house and now thinks this is her opportunity to have a forever home and care for my Mum until the end. We all did talk to her about private renting but she is pretty insistent that a council house is the only way (for stability, affordability and she has a dog who is like a child for her so she needs a place that’s suitable for my Mam and a dog)

I totally appreciate their reasoning but they need to accept pursuing private renting really, it’d be awful of them to cost her brother thousands in court fees. Even when homeless they won’t be high priority and getting something she actually wants is very unlikely. Then many council properties don’t even come with flooring so how would that work with your mum? Could she take that disruption after being made homeless?

It seems absurd that your mums husband can effectively ditch her in another country and because she does not have capacity, she cannot divorce him and be entitled to the assets and equity that is rightfully hers.

Have you sought legal advice on her divorcing him? The fact that he can effectively leave her homeless and penniless whilst he remains in their marital home is nuts

Also it sounds like there is no way your mum could cope with temporary accommodation.

I dont know how it works but would she be eligible for a care home if your sil and brother are forced into temporary accommodation?

I think you all need some proper legal advice, this all sounds so difficult and messy.

Tell them to get on the housing register, they are far more likely to get social housing from a housing association but need to be on the housing register. Tell then to call some local housing associations to find out more

If the council won't provide her with care and she can't claim benefits then she won't be included in their housing application. She's 'NRPF' which stands for no recourse to public funds. It's an unusual situation for a British citizen but that's the sum of it. She can't apply to be housed. If she was about to become street homeless then housing would likely refer her to adult social care who may fund accommodation for her temporarily but until she can establish residence here she won't get housed along with your brother and SIL.

My mam was only in the states for 5/6 years, before then she did work in the UK most of her adult life
Trying to work it out so she moved to states at 48ish? So must have at least 30 years of NI payments? Is there a welfare advice team in your area?

Its just a mess really, I think SIL has a friend who was housed in a new build council house and now thinks this is her opportunity to have a forever home and care for my Mum until the end. We all did talk to her about private renting but she is pretty insistent that a council house is the only way (for stability, affordability and she has a dog who is like a child for her so she needs a place that’s suitable for my Mam and a dog)

Harshly, if your SIL has quit her job and taken on caring for your DM because she thought it'd be an opportunity to get a nice cheap new build council house which she can keep her dog in, she has massively massively shot herself in the foot. The council don't care about her wish to have a pet, or really about her wishes at all. Do you realise that homeless people get rehoused sometimes in a different city to where they work and have family, and others wait over 10 years in temporary accommodation? She can be as insistent as she likes, it's not up to her.

The best option seems to be for you to consult a lawyer to find a way to get DMs husband to pay for her care or make a settlement on her - doesn't your younger half sister want her mum safe? Could she intervene with the husband?

I haven’t had any legal advice yet. It’s been a really rough few years as our estranged Dad died overseas so it’s taken years to sort all of his affairs and everything feels like it’s left to me to sort as the oldest daughter. My brother and sister (3 of us original children of my Mam) are the type to just not say anything, don’t want to have conflict, want to keep the peace. Whereas I think it’s insane too that he’s basically just dumped her over here, is free to carry on working and earning a good wage, is dating new women and living his life without having to even come and see her. He thinks he’s a brilliant man and a caring husband because he pays SIL less than minimum wage and basically takes advantage of her kindhearted nature knowing she will never ever put her in a care home.

When I mentioned about him selling his house he was shocked and completely shut it down, he’s not spoken to me since and neither really have my siblings because everyone is under this impression that the council is just going to house them. When he could literally sell their house (which is a huge 5 bed American home and he lives there alone) he could downsize and pay for a house in cash for them. They could get a 2 bed property in the area they are for 150-180k. I didn’t think that was a crazy idea, but apparently I don’t know what I’m talking about and so I’ve been cut from the family group chat.

If I was able to buy a second property myself I would in a heart beat but I can’t afford to. It’s such a mess 😔

I have tried to gently talk to my younger half sibling, she’s currently at college in America and her Dad (Mams husband) financially supports her. She’s worried about the situation but more worried about her college being paid for/ financial support from her Dad. So she is saying that her Dad can’t afford to help anymore than he can because Mam would have wanted her to go to college, which is true but also..Mams about to be homeless and has no money, it’s really hard to intervene when the husband is so tight lipped about his financial situation and I can only go on what my Mam told me when they were well (that she put a large deposit down on the house in America 100-200k)

Everyday families turn up at their local council offices with their car full of belongings to declare homelessness. If they don’t have family they’ll go into a hostel type place- they’ll still have to pay rent for it, and they can be pretty pricey but they’ll get some help claiming the benefits they’re entitled too.

toddlers have to go along to do this, they won’t give a seconds consideration to your mum im afraid

How did your mum meet her husband? If she only lived in America for 5 years, but has a child old enough to be on college, did they all live over here and move to USA for college? Did your mum work in USA? What did she live off in not for the 5 years she was there? @Blueotter22

You need to Google the habitual residence test and follow the rules for this, I.e showing that she is here permanently and intending to stay and put down roots. It’s all simple stuff like registering with a GP, bank etc.

I think it’s unlikely that your brother and sister in law will be owed a homeless duty as they have to be classed as being in priority need, which aside from your mum who they can’t count as part of the household, they’re not. There may also be issues with their landlord being a relative.