Council housing priority - council advising to wait until Ballifs turn up

[Blueotter22]

Hi All,

Im posting here for traffic really to see if anyone else has experienced this or has been able to challenge it. I’m at a loss on how I can support my Mum with this.

My mum has advanced Alzheimer’s (early onset) and is cared for 24/7 by my SIL & Brother. My angel SIL quit her job (as a care home worker) to care for my Mam full time, she does everything for her (personal care, feeding, medication, appointments etc). My SIL & Brother have rented a house from SIL’s brother for a number of years, rent is reasonable and they’ve managed just about but now her brother is moving back home from overseas and would like his house back. SIL has her heart set on a council house because of their low income they will struggle with the private rent but also the area they live is typically flats to rent which wouldn’t be suitable for Mums mobility needs. They would also like the security that having a council house brings as they have a pet and want the stability of not having to move again.
Which is understandable, as they have no savings, wouldn’t really ever be in a position to buy and brother works a low paid job which is a struggle to provide for 3 adults.

Mum has been rejected for benefits due to a super complicated and I think unfair situation, she was basically living in America with her husband when she became unwell and was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. We (& she) wanted her to come back to the UK but husband insisted they were staying in America as he worked there, he wasn’t aware of how Alzheimer’s disease progresses and sadly she deteriorated quite quickly during Covid and he couldn’t travel to bring her home. He admitted he could no longer care for her and brought her back to the UK and basically promised he would sell up in America and come back to help care for her, but yeah..he didn’t. He’s stayed there and now my Mum hasn’t been able to access any financial support because technically she’s been out of the country. The rules are the rules so it’s just something we’ve had to accept. My SIL therefore hasn’t even had any carers allowance or support.

So the issue is, the council are refusing to acknowledge that my Mum exists basically because she doesn’t have benefits. Despite turning up to the house unannounced and witnessing how unwell she is. The housing officer has told my SIL that they won’t be considered a priority until she is taken to court and ballifs attend the property.

SIL brother has served them a section 21 and said they have until X date to leave, but obviously he doesn’t want to take them to court or get the ballifs. It will cost so much! I just think it’s absolutely crazy that this is the actual advice given? Pay court fees, pay ballifs just to prove you need housing?
Also, they said they’ll likely find them temporary accommodation first before they are able to bid. I just don’t see how this is reasonable for a woman who is highly distressed a lot of the time anyway, can’t manage stairs, needs constant supervision and I’m just so overwhelmed trying to understand how I can help them.

I can’t believe this is actually a thing? Part of me was thinking my SIL might have got the wrong end of the stick but she is adamant that is the advice from the housing officer?! 😳

I am going to write to their MP and I’ve googled so much about this but has anyone experienced a similar situation and is there some kind of legislation or something I can use to write to the council?

When I mentioned about him selling his house he was shocked and completely shut it down, he’s not spoken to me since and neither really have my siblings because everyone is under this impression that the council is just going to house them. When he could literally sell their house (which is a huge 5 bed American home and he lives there alone) he could downsize and pay for a house in cash for them. They could get a 2 bed property in the area they are for 150-180k. I didn’t think that was a crazy idea, but apparently I don’t know what I’m talking about and so I’ve been cut from the family group chat.

I'm sorry to say but your siblings have to get in the real world and support you to get legal advice fast.

As has been mentioned lots on this thread, so many people are waiting for council properties and living in b and bs and unsuitable accommodation. Its unlikely your sil, brother and mum will immediately be giving suitable accommodation (if at all) so they need to start thinking about what is best for your mum and not just being given a forever home.

They need a reality check and the way to get that is seeking legal advice to enable your mum to get her assets that she js entitled to from her crappy husband.

They met back when I was a teenager, so have been together over 25 years. They moved to the states because he got a great job and my little sister went to high school there and now college. She didn’t work in America, his wage is really good so essentially she was a house wife and I would visit a couple of times a year to see them. I noticed her behaviour had changed and I had to beg them to go for assessment, when she was diagnosed I said they should return but him & my sister were settled in their American life and neither wanted to give it up and come home so they remain there.

Other than getting legal advice it doesn’t sound like you can help if your brother and SIL won’t accept sensible advice about housing. Can they move closer to you so you can help with your mum too?

I suggested this a while back, when my Dad died we each inherited an amount we could use to help our housing situations. I used my share as a deposit to get on the ladder, my sister did the same. My brother spent his on who knows what, nothing to show for it. At the time the house next door to me was for sale and I said come and live next door to me and I’ll be on hand daily. SIL has all her family in the north east so won’t move. I would love to move up there but my son is secondary age and I co-parent with his Dad who lives here, I couldn’t uproot him at this point in his life. So I basically use all of my AL to travel up and provide respite (another issue really, because SIL refuses to allow carers into the home to support, so whenever they need a break it’s up to me to travel up or my sister to travel and use all of her AL to provide respite) which of course we want to help as much as we can but it’s all just very exhausting and I just want my Mam to be comfortable and happy. In the middle of all this I’m just grieving her so hard and I miss talking to her every day, she was my rock even when she lived in America I would talk to her daily when my siblings would barely pick up the phone. I am trying so hard to keep everyone happy, so the whole council house thing is like a fixation my SIL has and I darent go against her or burst her bubble because if I fall out with her then I won’t be able to see my Mam. It’s shit.

When he could literally sell their house (which is a huge 5 bed American home and he lives there alone) he could downsize and pay for a house in cash for them.
Sorry who thinks this? They want him to sell his and am assume the house their daughter stays in when not at college and buy your brother and sil a house outright?
Or do they mean buy a house in your mum's name, that would be an asset when she needs a care home?

If your mum has no recourse to public funds, why didn't she stay in the USA in the house she half owns?
I'm finding it difficult to imagine wanting to basically separate from my husband if I became unwell and move in with my child.
Did your mum have health insurance and income insurance in the USA?
Wouldn't she have been cared for in the USA?

He has a 5 bedroom house in America, which my Mam put 200k down on (all of her savings) that he lives in alone and yes my youngest sister stays there when at college. I suggested he sell the house, downsize and with the left over equity he buy a house with cash and put it in my youngest sisters name (not Brother or SIL)
i didn’t think that was a crazy idea, that way they have somewhere to live and my youngest sister has a property in the UK for the future

This is going to sound pretty bad but… take her back to America, take her home and leave her husband to organise her care. She has a daughter in the country, he won’t be able to ignore her.
Don’t have her back, don’t help him or answer the door to him or allow him to drop her back round. You simply don’t have the means to help her here, she has no money of her own because her husband won’t release it, she isn’t entitled to any help out here. She has to go home.

Because he couldn’t care for her, she was neglected, unwashed, highly distressed and crying and didn’t recognise him and thought he was going to hurt her. He was impatient with her, he doesn’t understand dementia and how to care for someone with dementia. He threatened to get her sectioned in America, if she ended up in a hospital in America then she wouldn’t have been able to travel back over here.

My SIL has worked her entire adult life caring for dementia patients in a care home, she wanted to care for her and she is actually so brilliant and amazing. She offered to quit her care job and care for Mam, we all thought that would be the best thing for her because the alternative would have been a care home in America where she would have been confused and stressed with all the American accents.

We couldn’t do that, he would just get her sectioned and she would die in an unfamiliar place surrounded by American accents and no loved ones who know her.
also, with how advanced her dementia is - unless they literally tranquillise her there is just so way she could even travel on a plane. She literally can’t even sit down for more than 20 seconds without trying to stand and pace again.

Terribly sad circumstances OP.
Could your mum file for a divorce?

Suggesting she can’t go to america because of american accents is the height of stupidity.

Surely the best thing is she lives with you, you organise carers, your brother and sister in law can then work fulltime and afford to rent a property.

You need to contact citizens advice and get their help to apply for benefits again. It’ not unusual to be turned down if you apply straight away, I know someone who had to wait three months to apply to show they intended to remain in the U.K.

As she can no longer manage her own affairs someone in the family can request to be her appointee for benefits and do the forms for her.

I think it’s silly to suggest going back to America- she’s been here since Covid hasn’t she? The best part of 5 years depending on circumstances she might be entitled to recourse to public funds soon. I have a disabled cousin who is entitled after 5 years so do check.

Anyway, to be honest I don’t see how your mums situation relates to your B &SILs- if they’re homeless she’ll be homeless with them but obviously it makes sense for you to house her and then the b&sil situation is just their own and as adults it’s something they have to sort out themselves

Not being harsh but from the council/states point of view, you could look at it like this...

DM was living in the USA with assets.

For whatever reason, guessing the expense, a home in the USA wasn't on the cards so she's been sent back home without any of those assets to claim benefits /care.

If you're being particularly cynical you could be asking:-

1. Was the decision to return made prior to her loss of mental capacity?

2. Why wasn't a home in the USA looked into?

3. Why didn't they have medical coverage?

4. What documentation is held relating to the potential assets?

If I was assessing a benefit claim, I would probably refuse the claim on excess capital grounds.

A simple verbal declaration that the husband is being a dick isn't enough. The former marital home is still the former marital home regardless of where it is in the world.

Finally, a previous poster put on about issues with family members being the landlord and I'm guessing this is with a view to benefits.

Basically, as long as it's a genuine tenancy it should be OK (it's complicated but it's pretty much a duck test. Does it have feathers, like water and go quack? Yes? Cool.) The contrived tenancy rules are in place to stop abuse NOT genuine claims.

Also, I'm more than a bit confused as to why a flat wouldn't be suitable for your mums mobility needs, but a house would be?
Or do you mean that your DB and SIL would like a bungalow?
There are still council bungalows but as other posters have pointed out, they are not easy to acquire.

How is it the height of stupidity? Do you know anything about Alzheimers Simon?
Imagine not knowing where you were, what you did 20 seconds ago, how to talk, how to eat, how to ask for what you need, how to navigate the environment because you don’t know where you are or who people are. Then you find yourself surrounded by American accents but can’t remember how you got there, why people are talking differently and actually the only memories you can connect with that give you a sense of comfort and safety are those familiar memories from decades ago. When you were a child in the north east, and suddenly a geordie accent feels like home and makes you feel safe.

Talk about height of stupidity @Simonjt

Is there somewhere on Mumsnet where US members could advise you about her entitlement to some of her capital? Even if you had to go through a "no win, no fee" lawyer you might get something for her.

DWP will expect the family to go after the substantial assets she has in the USA.

You can’t just leave all your money abroad and come to the UK expecting benefits.

Well she didn’t do this intentionally, by the time she got here she no longer had capacity. During Covid she couldn’t return, she was essentially stuck there without capacity and her husband was naive thinking the medication would make her better as he had no experience of dementia and my whole family are the type to stick their head in the sand and wait for the crisis.

But I completely agree with everyone, I don’t think she should be entitled to a council house when her husband is nearly mortgage free in a 700k property he could downsize and buy her a house. But I’m apparently the asshole for suggesting this. Instead I’m in a situation where I’m trying to support my SIL and brother who are adamant they are getting a council house, so I’m just trying my best to make sure my Mam is cared for and has suitable housing

All that the OP has posted on this very sad situation and you choose to zone in and quote this specific comment? And quote out of context? ……🙄

@Blueotter22 surely her previous 45 years of living in UK should make a difference? has her dh not sent any money towards her keep knowing she is ill? depending on how long she was with her dh i would have expected a divorce settlemeny. I presume that her husband is not the father of any of you? I honestly cannot see how you and your db could finance your db and sil for a private rental.

How.much money is her husband sending to pay your sil?

my SIL and brother who are adamant they are getting a council house

But they're wrong about that. It seems like first job is getting legal advice on how to get your mum's finances from her dickhead husband, second job is send your DB and SIL a wake up call in the form of info from Shelter or something so they can start to understand that people don't get given a council house just because they've set their heart on one.

If the council don't even accept your mum as being officially here in terms of not having recourse to public funds, you might end up in a situation where DB and SIL are in temp accommodation suitable for a couple, like a room in a shared place or a Travelodge, and what then? DM comes to live with you with paid carers?

Why is no one going after the assets on her behalf? It’s her money, her money that she desperately needs.