Council housing priority - council advising to wait until Ballifs turn up

[Blueotter22]

Hi All,

Im posting here for traffic really to see if anyone else has experienced this or has been able to challenge it. I’m at a loss on how I can support my Mum with this.

My mum has advanced Alzheimer’s (early onset) and is cared for 24/7 by my SIL & Brother. My angel SIL quit her job (as a care home worker) to care for my Mam full time, she does everything for her (personal care, feeding, medication, appointments etc). My SIL & Brother have rented a house from SIL’s brother for a number of years, rent is reasonable and they’ve managed just about but now her brother is moving back home from overseas and would like his house back. SIL has her heart set on a council house because of their low income they will struggle with the private rent but also the area they live is typically flats to rent which wouldn’t be suitable for Mums mobility needs. They would also like the security that having a council house brings as they have a pet and want the stability of not having to move again.
Which is understandable, as they have no savings, wouldn’t really ever be in a position to buy and brother works a low paid job which is a struggle to provide for 3 adults.

Mum has been rejected for benefits due to a super complicated and I think unfair situation, she was basically living in America with her husband when she became unwell and was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s. We (& she) wanted her to come back to the UK but husband insisted they were staying in America as he worked there, he wasn’t aware of how Alzheimer’s disease progresses and sadly she deteriorated quite quickly during Covid and he couldn’t travel to bring her home. He admitted he could no longer care for her and brought her back to the UK and basically promised he would sell up in America and come back to help care for her, but yeah..he didn’t. He’s stayed there and now my Mum hasn’t been able to access any financial support because technically she’s been out of the country. The rules are the rules so it’s just something we’ve had to accept. My SIL therefore hasn’t even had any carers allowance or support.

So the issue is, the council are refusing to acknowledge that my Mum exists basically because she doesn’t have benefits. Despite turning up to the house unannounced and witnessing how unwell she is. The housing officer has told my SIL that they won’t be considered a priority until she is taken to court and ballifs attend the property.

SIL brother has served them a section 21 and said they have until X date to leave, but obviously he doesn’t want to take them to court or get the ballifs. It will cost so much! I just think it’s absolutely crazy that this is the actual advice given? Pay court fees, pay ballifs just to prove you need housing?
Also, they said they’ll likely find them temporary accommodation first before they are able to bid. I just don’t see how this is reasonable for a woman who is highly distressed a lot of the time anyway, can’t manage stairs, needs constant supervision and I’m just so overwhelmed trying to understand how I can help them.

I can’t believe this is actually a thing? Part of me was thinking my SIL might have got the wrong end of the stick but she is adamant that is the advice from the housing officer?! 😳

I am going to write to their MP and I’ve googled so much about this but has anyone experienced a similar situation and is there some kind of legislation or something I can use to write to the council?

I’m not 100% sure, I believe he has financial and he signed something to say SIL could make the day to day decisions on her health and care because she was having to call him up and due to the time difference he couldn’t always be available for the appointments on the phone.
Come to think of it, everything was pretty much done between husband & SIL without my knowledge or involvement. I don’t know exactly how he got POA, they talk a lot between themselves and if Im honest I feel like im just the person to go to when SIL is unhappy with husband, housing or money because she doesn’t feel able to challenge him as SIL whereas I’ll just say things directly.

@YourAzureEagle “Having been through this, from what you describe you are probably under 12 months from the end anyway, the decline at the end is surprisingly rapid given the awful time to get there.” unfortunately it doesn’t always work like that for those with younger onset dementia, some people survive for a relatively longer time despite being very cognitively impaired because they can be more physically robust and have fewer co-morbidities. The main positive about this situation is having the SIL prepared to care for someone ,and that it sounds like she is doing a very good job at caring for the OP’s mum….if I were the husband, compared to the costs involved with NH care, I would be thinking I was getting a very good deal. surely he could stump up extra to subsidise the costs for a private rental?

@Blueotter22 if you don’t feel able to ask your relatives directly as to who has which powers, you can search the register via a form https://www.gov.uk/find-someones-attorney-deputy-or-guardian. I really don’t think its in your mums best interests to end up in an eviction/ temporary accommodation situation as this is going to be immensely stressful for everyone involved…I think your brother / SIL and your mums husband need to discuss finding a solution to have a planned move into private rented. Especially when you throw a dog into the mix!

To be fair I think he did say he would be a guarantor for them and help with a deposit for private renting. SIL doesn’t want to private rent because she is worried they won’t let her take her dog (who is like a literal child to her), and she is worried the same thing will happen again and they will need to move.
Which is kind of the reality of housing, but I think she’s been influenced by her friends and family in the area who live in council houses and wants that stable tenancy and place she can call her own. I get it, but after reading everyone’s comments I’m now just worried she is setting herself up for so much stress and dissapointment. I’m also obviously worried that she will make herself homeless and take my Mam with her which is unnecessary distress my Mam shouldn’t have to go through.

The other possibility is that when they become homeless and no council property is forthcoming social services will have to get involved and conclude that your Mum is vulnerable and it's not in her best interests to go into a travel lodge or equivalent. At this point it would probably be a best interest decision to put her in a care home, at least until stable accommodation is available.

@Blueotter22 i suppose your SIL might want to take her chances but its going to be a bit like playing Russian roulette …in my area there would be no chance as we have such long housing wait lists ,even high priority families are in temporary accommodation for months to years but I know it does vary around the country.

I’ve got a lot if empathy for you OP but I’m afraid your SIL may well be sticking her head in the sand here- maybe her friends get council houses because they had children and were prioritised, maybe had disabilities that placed them higher etc- problem is here that on paper your mother has assets albeit she can’t get hold of them and her entitlement to benefits in General is dubious- so relying on getting a council house based on being a couple with no kids is dubious at best- if the H isn’t going to play ball and it looks like divorce is tricky then you need to get social services in to sort out an assessment and look at the residency situation again - in the meantime they really need to be on the register for housing - they don’t need to wait for bailiffs for that

Hard as it is, I’d suggest that you don’t have the full story and might be working with incomplete information - if you're only being brought into it when your SIL is looking for an ‘attack dog’. To insert yourself, you should ensure that you’ve got as much information on the situation as you can. IF you want to (try to) change POA to someone in England, who would it be? You really need to get some legal advice. Maybe there’s a way of getting some form of spousal support (🤷🏻‍♀️) but be aware that -from what you’ve said - it would need to be managed by someone other than B/SIL.

My advice - get yourself off mumsnet now. You’ll get as you have found , a volume of options, some helpful, down rude, some pointless. It sounds like you are going through a hard time and perhaps seeking counselling would help too. From a legal perspective, go to citizens advice and also there is a forum with legal experts called legal beagles. There are also forums and advice from Alzheimer’s charities - they have links - have a look there as what you are going thru is common (perhaps the overseas angle is different). Take care of yourself and hope your mum stays safe & cared for.

It sounds like you might be talking about the past presence test for disability benefits, like Attendence Allowance. These are not public funds but you must have been in the UK to claim them.

"Present in the UK for at least 104 weeks (2 years) out of the last 156 weeks (3 years) before your claim."

Which means even if she wasn't eligible at one point, she will become eligible with time spent in the UK. If its been a while since she tried to claim, check if she's become eligible. Your SIL could get a carers benefit if your mother gets AA.

Pension Credit is of course a public fund. Has she tried to claim this? Is she a British citizen? Does she have a full UK pension or savings? The Habitual Residence Test for Pension Credit is a lot easier for British Citizens than the Past Presence Test - but if your mum has high pension income or savings, she might not get it (not the case for Attendence Allowance, so still keep an eye on that for when she does become eligible to claim).

Benefits will make it easier to access council housing.

Your SIL may want to get carers credits whilst waiting for your mother to get the qualifying benefits, a doctor will need to confirm your SIL is a carer.

To be honest you need casework from someone who knows what they're doing. Go to citizens advice and tell them you need support. If they try to fob you off with links to online info, just tell them it doesn't help - you need practical support to get anything done for your mother. Hopefully they'll take the case on then.

How is the set up in America with the home ownership and your mum’s will? She put the down payment into the house, so her will should leave her share to all of her children?

She needs to go into a home. Her husband will be financially responsible for that. When she dies, her will dictates where her share of the assets goes so your brother and sil will then get something and maybe be able to secure housing for themselves.

Plenty of people emigrate and then in later life they get dementia. They don’t then get shipped back home to claim benefits when they’ve got plenty of money. She should have been put into a care home in America. I’ve gone through dementia care. Being there with their accents wouldn’t have made it any worse. Instead, she is here with no access to her own money and her husband keeping it all. You need to put her in a home with him as her husband and next of kin and financially responsible.

@Agix
She is not pension age. Can’t claim any of that stuff. She also had plenty of assets and money. Her family just haven’t bothered to get legal help to get her money.

I'm guessing that SIL and DB haven't tried to deal with the POA and sorting the finances properly because they're scared to annoy the husband and thereby lose the £1000 a month plus help with rent and bills. If they're low earnings who are bad with money (having already spunked all the inheritance from OPs dad ) it's probably the difference between them being afloat financially and not.

But now their tenancy is ending and they're expecting rehousing, that bullet will have to be bitten. Otherwise they're risking getting assessed by housing as a working age couple who can earn enough for private rent and only need a room in a shared house as temporary accommodation.

If they're burying their heads in the sand about your DMs situation, will the threat of having to re-home the dog motivate them more effectively?

I’m unsure if Mam has a will, she hadn't mentioned it and I’m not sure how to ask husband. I’ve also found out that he doesn’t have POA, instead he went to court and got deputyship and I was unaware of this. I know I sound super incompetent but you’ve got to understand that her husband is a man who has been a good man and raised us as teenagers, he’s always told us he sees us as his own children. We’ve always had a good relationship with him so when all of this happened we all just rallied around and did what we can to care for Mam, we had no reason to not believe he had her best interests at heart. So please don’t think we just couldn’t be bothered to get legal advice, we’ve always given him the benefit of the doubt seeing him struggle with the grief of losing his wife and best friend. However, from reading everyone’s comments and advice I’m now thinking that perhaps he isn’t making decisions within her best interests.

Before they went to America, my Mam had received a large (500k) payout for an injury that resulted in a permanent disability. That’s how I know she put a large amount of money into the American house but she also told me she was helping husband pay off some debts, and honestly I don’t know what happened to her money. But that’s her money and in my mind I think she should have access to her money to buy a house that she needs. So I guess I just need to get some legal advice on challenging the deputyship because I don’t think he’s making decisions for her finances and property that’s within her best interests.

that’s her money and in my mind I think she should have access to her money to buy a house that she needs. So I guess I just need to get some legal advice on challenging the deputyship because I don’t think he’s making decisions for her finances and property that’s within her best interests.

It's good that you're thinking in this way now and don't be put off by your relatives' reactions which seem quite self-interested in one way or another. The bottom line is, your mother has $$$$ so should be adequately housed and cared for with her own money and not have to struggle or be on a council homeless list. Her husband is not paying SIL £1k a month out of his own money. That's your mother's money and you have every right to go after it on her behalf. Course her husband still needs a home but it's clearly wrong for him to be living it up in a huge home while she's pulled into this eviction charade over here. Good luck with getting the proper legal advice and leverage that you/she needs.

Thank you everyone, for all the comments and advice - supportive and pragmatic! I’ve tried to talk to my SIL, brother and sister this morning and explained about the council housing issue. I’ve told them that it’s unrealistic to pin their hopes on a council house when the local authority have no responsibility to house a lady who has joint assets to that amount. I’ve gently raised that we get some legal advice on the deputyship and accessing her finances to support with her housing.

As expected I’ve not had the response I was hoping for. Brother & SIL are confident they will get their council house, they refuse to private rent and they don’t even want a house bought in Mams name as they want a forever home. Sister is saying we can’t afford to legally challenge husband, that our little sister will suffer being in the middle of her Dad and siblings and that it’s not a good idea and to just let them pursue the council house.

SIL tells me that Mam is going to be awarded full PIP now, she will receive carers allowance, she’s also been “advised” to apply for UC on behalf of Mam. So I’m assuming that amount, combined with SIL “wage”, Money husband puts towards rent/bills and then my brothers full time job wage will evidence that they are able to afford private rent? I also just think surely the housing officer is going to look into the deputyship to see how much money my Mam has access to, which will unravel everything and then they’ll see her husband is the deputyship and he has assets so why would they have the duty to house her?
This is what I’ve said to them both and I basically got a response of “Don’t worry, let’s just see what happens”

So do I just step back and let them make their own bed or do I keep fighting on behalf of my Mam?

I think you might want to have this thread deleted OP.

You have shared a lot, it might not be in your or your mum’s best interest to leave it.

How do I do that?

do you mean just incase legally someone finds it and works out who I am/ she is?

There are always posters saying threads should be deleted for some legal reason or other, when there really is no issue. Even if someone recognised you, there is nothing here that is private or could be used against you. Really. Don’t worry. If you want it sorted then ask mumsnet but don’t let yourself get worried by some paranoid poster. You’ve shared nothing that’s going to get you into any issues.

@Blueotter22 as you are happy with the care provided to your mum by your sil then I would totally understand why you might stand back and wait and see….you have pointed out the important considerations to them all and it doesn’t sound like they are swayed at all by this, so personally I would step back.

You have done all you can in trying to advise them . All you can do is sit back and see how it plays out.

Your DB and SIL are very entitled aren't they? They refuse to private rent or to have a house bought in your DMs name - they're in no position to be refusing anything!

They might also come unstuck if SIL applies for UC for your DM, contrary to popular belief the government doesn't hand UC out like Smarties and will look into the finances. PIP isn't means tested but UC is and I think the payments from the husband will be scrutinised - child maintenance is disregarded for UC but I've no idea if 'adult maintenance' is, likely not, plus there's the complications of your DM having assets abroad and not having been in the UK the whole time. They might take a dim view of what could look like a wealthy overseas family dumping an unwell relative in the UK and expecting the UK state to fund, house and care for her while they sit on $$.

If they want you to drop it could you make a deal with them? Agree to drop the idea of pursuing the finances (for now) if they can come up with concrete evidence from the local authority of how they will be housed once evicted including your DM? Not just 'well Joan got a nice new council house so we will too' but a housing officer actually saying 'x will happen, y won't happen'?

'Let's just see what happens' is a crazy plan when your DM is so vulnerable. These people are not acting like grown ups.

She can't divorce him. She doesn't have capacity.

In our Borough, there is a Nil Recourse to public funds social work team. I wonder if it might be worth making contact with them in your area regarding your mums situation. There is a budget within those teams to pay for care homes if emergency placements are needed. This might be a better option for your mum rather than the upheaval of being homeless, in temp in a hotel etc. It might be necessary as it’ll be very difficult to find two bedroomed council accommodation, particularly as your mum will not be eligible for council accommodation (although she could be put on the application as a household member only). All areas are different so they may be in an area where the pressure on council housing is not so acute but most city areas have long council housing waiting lists now.

I would advise your brother/SIL to start making enquiries with social services to get the ball rolling. If they can help your mum, then it will be easier for your SIL /brother to find accommodation just for themselves privately or go on the council list for a one bedroomed flat.

Also can you afford to get legal advice regarding the situation with your mums husband and the house? He is depriving her of her assets. It will be too late to get power of attorney in the Uk now she has an advanced dementia diagnosis but social services may have the power to get a charge put on her house in the US if she needs care.