To feel sad that people are not having children, they would have liked to have

[Tootiredfrthis]

I feel sad that I would love to have a third DC but I don't think I will because of lack of support and not having any extended family who can help.
Similarly, I was speaking to a friend and she almost cried saying how much she would love to is third DC but can't as she's 42 and sky rocketing nursery fees.
Another friend was saying she would love a third but undecided due to no family nearby.
Another male friend was saying he would love a second DC but he has broken up with his girlfriend and was in custody battle for his only DC and don't want to go through it again.
I feel quite sad that there are so many who would love another DC but won't be having them for various reasons while fertility rates keep falling and there's so little support for modern parents/families.

The current fertility rate in the UK is 1.44, well below replacement level of 2.1 and it's 1.44, thanks to migration and women of child bearing age choosing to immigrate to UK and having children as they have published in the report. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/articles/howisthefertilityratechanginginenglandandwales/2024-10-28
It's even worse for countries like South Korea which are at 0.68 and Greece etc. so, the truth is we aren't over populated and with an average life expectancy of 80 something, there aren't going to be lot of people around in another century. Don't be ridiculous by saying oh it's for planet earth, it's more important than ever to have more humans to look after our elderly as doctors, nurses, teachers and come in our workforce.

Sorry for your losses.

The “at least” comments are the worse, the fact that some commenters think it’s OK to say to someone that they shouldn’t be sad and should just be happy with what they have is the reason a lot of woman do not speak about their losses.

I realised after losing pregnancies how harsh people can be, they constantly make you feel like you shouldn’t grieve because they have it worse.

Yes it’s very sad that you haven’t had any children yet, of course it is, but I’m allowed to grieve my losses and be happy about the child I have. Do not tell me how I can feel

All those going on about secondary (or tertiary) infertility are missing the point.

The OP is whingeing that lack of money and help from family is limiting her family size (and those of her friends) - as if money and capacity to cope without assistance weren't the reasons most people do or don't have children!

If the OP was that desperate for a third child she and her partner could move to a cheap area, dramatically restrict their lifestyle, make choices to facilitate an aditional child at the cost of other aspects of life (career options, housing options, standard of living).

Instead, she feels "sad" for people without more money to have a third child. We all have many, many reasons to hope for more money - old and leaky roof, children at uni, soul destroying job that makes them miserable, not had a holiday in a decade, paying for carer for elderly relative, whatever.

It just seems such a place of privilige to be in while saying how terribly sad it is.

I think it's sad that people can't be grateful for what they have, and consider the impact of humanity on the planet and other species. We are killing off many beautiful, worthy species with our selfish exponential reproduction. Producing kid after kid after kid for selfish reasons is so exasperating.

If you applied that logic then why do people have more than one child, why can’t the one they’ve got be enough?

On the flip side, more than 4 or 5 and the relationships tend to suffer (parent to child and child to parent). I think I read some research on this. I have certainly met at least one where it seemed there just wasn't quite enough time and love to go round (adult child from era of pre-access to free contraception). With one or two, even 3 I think kids stand a better chance of getting everything they need. Obviously this is a generalisation. I am sure some big families have been/are happy. Mum was one of five and had a nice childhood, though there was often not quite enough money. I would have liked more than one but was 36 when had DS. He was a very demanding baby indeed (later found to have multiple SEND).I got Chronic fatigue when he was 3 and so number 2 child never happened. I do feel sad, for DS and us. I think we would have found it hard if a second also had SEND. Not because of the child but because everything you have to navigate is set up to frustrate and deny their rights. So many battles with education system and even NHS. Many expensive independent reports, solicitor bills etc.

One the whole, glad to have one, even if I daydream about a potential sibling (too old now anyway).

Similar to others, in my 20's I was just saving up a deposit. Partner at the time kept putting off the idea of children - because it would interfere with what he wanted (his Art). Didn't meet DH until 30 and had DS at 36 when we had bought somewhere to live. Not a great deal of help from family, even though we lived 30 mins away. Mum had a very domineering male partner who was jealous (coercive control).

I had secondary infertility after my dc and I’m pregnant now after ivf. I agree having primary infertility would be worse. I also had a horrible traumatic miscarriage a few years ago .
i have no doubt it is painful for anyone who wants a 3rd and can’t have one for whatever reason but I don’t really have that much sympathy if they already have 2..I’ll be honest . I can understand why someone with primary infertility wouldn’t have sympathy for me either .

I work in the AI and data industry and I am very well familiar about impact of AI. I find it absolutely ridiculous when people say we don't need humans now that AI is here. Ai can only reduce costs around things like automated customer services etc but it's not anywhere near replacing jobs like nurses, doctors, teachers etc. it would be more like an assistant for many jobs. There's still no definite timelines when these jobs will be taken over. Moreover, it's only the ones who are far from AI industry who think all these jobs are going away.
Moreover, anyone who thinks that due to AI, we shouldn't have any children due to AI really are very ridiculous and low on IQ and we'll be better off if they are replaced by AI.

Well generally low birth rates mean a smaller tax base and less money for public services and pensions unless you bring in immigrants which not a lot people are in favour of. I am fully part of the problem as a 32 year old woman who has decided on a single child family but on a societal level aging societies does present a particular set of problems which is why most governments are going to be quite pronatalist in the coming years out of sheer desperation.

I fully expect things like tax breaks/reduced income tax for parents of 3 or more children and cash handouts for those with larger families. It wouldn't encourage me to have more children (as my reasons are also health related) but it may encourage some people.

@KimberleyClark can you stop hijacking my thread and create your own thread about other issues. Everyone's feeling is valid and it's not a race to the bottom.

Hopefully they’ve gone now to another thread

I know that. It is only my husband and I with no grandparents nearby. Personally doesn't make me feel like I shouldn't have more children (obviously just for us).

We only had one due to cost/lack of family support/lack of space & I would have liked two BUT I really don't feel upset about it. In some way's I feel we've been very present & able to give him everything (within reason). I'm one of 5 & hated it, we had no money, no space & my parents certainly never had time for us e.g no help with school work, they did not attend parents evenings etc.

No doubt she does feel sorry for those that can't have any but that isn't what she is posting about.

You posted in AIBU, which implies that you are asking the question "Am I being unreasonable?". @KimberleyClark is saying YABU (as are quite a few other posters). Just because she doesn't agree with you doesn't mean she shouldn't be posting or a part of the discussion.

The thing is, if things don't work out how you wanted, you can change your perspective. Like I've already said, I wanted three but couldn't have them. I was initially sad, but over time, I just felt very grateful to have two healthy children.
My perspective changed so much that I'm now actually glad I don't have a third child. I really appreciate the fact I can give both children so much time and attention. That feels quite precious to me. Also now I have a teenager and an almost teenager I feel thankful I'll never have three teenagers in the house! Parenting has become much more complicated. My children's problems have become bigger and more serious. I worry more about them. I worry about paying university fees! Getting two kids through the teenage years and into university is really enough for us.
What I'm saying is that you and your friends may feel sad about not having a third child now but you may feel very differently in time.

Most people who have more than three children are either very well off or very poor from my experience. If you’re really well off then obviously you have the money to support however many children you want, and if you’re really poor the state will step up to support you.

There are already posters in this thread who say their parents had to stop at 2 due to financial limitations. It’s not just this generation at all.
in fact I think many people could have more now but they choose not to as the financial hit is something they don’t want not one they couldn’t handle. And I agree with this.
people still want to be able to afford to go on nice holidays etc and 3 dc makes it tougher and that’s an ok choice to make

All my 4 children have a wonderful
life, are well cared for, catered for and looked after by me. The thought would never have entered my head that I couldn’t have more children because I didn’t have family to help. They are my kids. I chose to have them so I will look after them. I knew I could give 4 children a good life and a loving home. Depends on your priorities I suppose and your financial situation. Not having kids because your parents or family are not available to help is pretty lame.

It cost me approx 50k to have my son. He was worth every single penny.

I had the opportunity to possibly spend the same amount again to get a brother or sister for him. Or not to bother and give him a privileged lifestyle that many kids in the rundown former mining town we live in. I chose the latter.

I would have loved to conceive naturally and hmm and ahh about whether to have a 2nd or 3rd but just conceiving the first was a matter of military operations.

I'm grateful for the one I do have. And he is enough.

I agree OP it is a shame if you can't afford a modest family, 3DC isn't excessive by any means.
It does seem much more common nowadays for people to worry more about the financial aspects of having DC which results in having fewer DC and/or starting a family later.
I'm in my 50s and of course we thought about cost not not in the spreadsheet obsessive way as my younger colleagues do, we were also happier to compromise on holidays (camping) and a 10 year old car etc. I don't think younger parents are as willing to sacrifice lifestyle.
Possibly as more woman return to employment after having DC it makes it logistically more challenging and perhaps more expensive due to childcare.
Not saying that women returning to employment after having a baby is a bad thing, it definitely makes you financially secure, less vulnerable, but it is a big shift, it was much more common to stay at home during pre school years 20+ years ago ime.
I also think each generation spends more on their DC. My parents sent me to brownies, Sunday school and took percentage of my wages when I left school at 16. I sent my DC to a myriad of extra curricular activities, they've had more expensive presents(PS5, tech etc) and I've had to support them through university. So it's cost me a lot more to raise my DC than it did my parents!
The birth rate is declining and any population increase is down to immigration not birth rates,so I do wonder where the doctors/nurses/builders etc will be to support my DC when they are pensioners as an aging population isn't really good news. As a society we need children.
Sadly my DC are currently against having children - financial cost, environmental reasons, wanting freedom, but I hope they change their minds!

If the OP was that desperate for a third child she and her partner could move to a cheap area, dramatically restrict their lifestyle, make choices to facilitate an aditional child at the cost of other aspects of life (career options, housing options, standard of living).

Yes, I do wonder how many people who say they can’t afford another child full stop actually mean they can’t afford a bigger house of the same standard, or to put three children through private school, or to take an extra child on expensive holidays. How much is “can’t” and how much is “don’t want to”, whether that’s not wanting children to share rooms, or not wanting to swap their nice new car for a second hand estate?

BTW, I see nothing wrong in not wanting to compromise on your lifestyle. But let’s not pretend that that is the same as it being financially impossible.

Maybe it would be a good idea to ask mumsnet to change your title. Mention not having the NUMBER of children you would have liked. I clicked on thinking this would be a post from someone like myself who has never managed to have a successful pregnancy, based on reading the title. Instead I get to read about someone who’s blessed with two DC, but wished she could have a third (which biologically you can, so I don’t see the actual problem).

Whilst you are perfectly reasonable to wish you could easily have more, some of us would give anything for one DC, and we probably clicked on here to give each other some support, and instead find a post all about people just bothered about insufficient family support, or lack of finances. Problems some of us would have been happy to have had to deal with.