NHS England to go is Keir being unreasonable?

[43percentburnt]

I don’t work for the NHS but have friends who do (and are increasingly looking at leaving - in some cases to move abroad).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx29lrl826rt

Is the removal of NHS England a good thing? Or is this a Labour gimmick?

To include an Aibu for Keir -

Yes Keir - you are being unreasonable

Or

Good job Keir, please get rid of NHS England - you are NOT being unreasonable

In my opinion its a good thing. I agree with Kier that there are way too many quangos, they cost too much and get in the way.

But, he has set up another 20 since the election.......so he's full of shit.

Can't see a poll but things got worse when the Tories invented NHS England so hopefully it's a good thing

To be honest, I can see the logic.

Everyone has known for a long time that a key problem within the NHS is overcomplication of management. From private GP services to CCGs (are they even still a thing?!) to the individual trusts and then the devolved areas, it's clear that it does need rebuilding.

How they'll do this, I have no idea. But as a process, I think I agree with the overall rationale why.

I think that we should expect and empower NHS managers to do the job including managing resources, complaints investigation, commissioning and policy without having a separate body, but I think this with a lot of things - we always add layers when taking them away is often more helpful.

My gut feeling is that he is being reasonable but it’s not a sector I know enough about. But I am concerned about people being made redundant. My friends are all medics trained in the UK in the 90s and early 2000s so I doubt will be affected by this negatively. But most are very unhappy and looking to leave / move abroad.

I do wonder if the people working there will just be swallowed up into gov positions and this is a gimmick as he has set up 27 quangos since election!

Sorry about the poll not showing , not sure how to fix that.

At the end of the day, the NHS is so broken right now, that quite frankly, it can't make it any worse!

I trust Labour with the NHS far more than I trust the Tories with it.

I think it makes sense. Even if 99% of the roles are just moved to the NHS, it would be more streamlined and much easier to manage the budget centrally rather than some going to NHS E. Which I imagine is done as a grant if they are an ALB but could be wrong about that.

Several people have referred to the new ones set up since labour came to power...does anyone have a link / source for that?

Without knowing more detail it’s hard to say. On the surface it’s a good idea- too much money is spent on pointless roles high up on the ladder when that money should be on the ground letting the NHS do what it was supposed to do in the first place.

NHS england is not frontline staff but mainly overpaid managers.
The few clinical people can be transferred to trusts

@JasmineTea11

The new quangos created by Labour -

Regulatory Innovation Office
National Infrastructure and Service Transformation Authority
Great British Energy
Mission Control
National Energy System Operator
Solar Taskforce
Border Security Command
Jet Zero Taskforce
British Infrastructure Taskforce
Creative Industries Taskforce
Circular Economy Taskforce
Tree Planting Taskforce
Child Poverty Taskforce
Flooding Resilience Taskforce
Motor Insurance Taskforce
New Towns Taskforce
Onshore Wind Industry Taskforce
Skills England
Industrial Strategy Council
Passenger Standards Authority
National Jobs and Careers
Ethics and Integrity Commissioner
House of Commons Modernisation Committee
School Support Staff Negotiating Body
Independent Football Regulator
Fair Work Agency
Defence Innovation Agency

The only experience I have with NHSE is the endless quality satisfaction forms they send me after every single appointment I have. Occasionally I get one about my prescription too.

I have long believed that this must cost quite a lot of money and is a pointless bureaucracy. Maybe they only do it for every hundred people and I'm exceedingly unlucky. Who knows.

I have no idea what else they do tbh. But my first thought was a sinking feeling as if they're ending this at the same time as cutting benefits to disabled people then it seems a bit dodgy.

There's an insane level of excessive bureaucracy in the NHS at the moment. I think it's good to see it being streamlined.
Of course we need management, but not multiple tiers of management in multiple organisations.

I work for an ICB (commissioner) and we have been called to an emergency meeting today. We went through a restructure last year and lost 20% of our workforce. We are on our knees with overwork and now there is talk of a further reduction by 50%.

I know the NHS is in a mess and needs overhauling but as someone who loves their job and works hard to make things as good as they can be, I am gutted.

Incidentally, I spent 20 of my 37 hour work week last week responding to MP enquiries - oh the irony.

Totally the right decision to roll back Lansley's terrible "reform" of the NHS, which was undertaken purely with an eye to privatisation.

Eta: but I feel for those who will lose their jobs. Hopefully they can be redeployed.

@GottaWork

I am sorry you will be affected.
Do you think you will keep your job?

Thanks @43percentburnt . I've no idea. I imagine if I do it will look very different.

Right, so you take all that money and invest it in "ground level" staff and so on. Who, then, provides the enormous degree of admin and bureaucratic support that extra Primary Care inevitably demands?

I'm not for a moment suggesting that Public Sector is never bloated, but there seems to be a common assertion that anyone in a managerial, admin, or support role in the NHS is, by definition, in a non-job, these roles are created purely on the off-chance they might be required one day, and that the incumbents are paid tens of thousands to do nothing more than sit around twiddling their thumbs and having meetings about meetings.

It's all fine and well demanding more beds, more nurses, expedited treatment etc etc, all the stuff that sells well with the public, but all of that also creates extra bureaucracy, it requires an enormous degree of admin support and management, and you can't just pretend it does not and go full steam ahead to hell with the consequences.

They're a happy bunch behind him in that picture

I struggle to envision who will take over NHS England role. I am sure they can be trimmed somewhat. They are a bit of a "that manager" where you don't necessarily understand why they are there and think everything works fine when they are on holiday but only because they set everything up to run smoothly to begin with.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX

do you think it’s a gimmick?

If they just bring all of the jobs into a government department I can’t see it saving money. Do NHS England staff currently get the same pension as those who work directly for the Government? Do they get 6 months full and 6 months half Sick pay at present?

I would like to see the details analysed by someone independent.

@HectorPlasm

They look really unhappy to be there.

Thanks for this @43percentburnt43percentburnt , interesting. But I don't think a taskforce is the same as a quango.

I massively feel for the people as there were some brilliant people working at NHSE. It’ll be messy for a while though.

The problem can be that a lot of staff have been in their roles forever, ARE very well paid (average in an ICB is around 60k?! Prob the same in NHSE) and there is no way of getting rid of poor performers. So I have sympathy with Starmer because in some ways, burning the whole thing to the ground is probably the only way of starting again.

The way that poor NHS staff can stick around for decades is shocking. The unions are too powerful. It's one of the main issues that causes lack of agility and resentment among existing staff.

I had a great NHS team which merged with a shite one, and all the good staff left because the poor staff were just making the working day shit for everyone - and I couldn't get rid of them.