NHS England to go is Keir being unreasonable?

[43percentburnt]

I don’t work for the NHS but have friends who do (and are increasingly looking at leaving - in some cases to move abroad).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx29lrl826rt

Is the removal of NHS England a good thing? Or is this a Labour gimmick?

To include an Aibu for Keir -

Yes Keir - you are being unreasonable

Or

Good job Keir, please get rid of NHS England - you are NOT being unreasonable

I spent 14 years working for NHS England in different teams and left during the last restructure in 2023. Devastated for colleagues still working there! At least 6,500 jobs will disappear! If any NHS England staff are on here you have my sympathy and support. I know how difficult this will be for you! Does anyone have the internal email that went out! How are internal NHSE staff reacting? Is everyone in shock? xx

The majority of these aren’t quangos though. …

They arent managers they are mostly analysts - who else is going to do the Business Intelligence analytics for the NHS from 2027 when NHS England disappears.

I heard this too today ( i work in a similar sector) 50% cuts of all management in ICBs nationwide ...

Hope you are ok there @GottaWork

The AI jobs revolution hasn't happened yet and may never do, IF it does, it will mean massive tax changes and perhaps there will be the need for Job Creation but we are no-where near that atm.

Plus its got nothing to do with abolishing NHS England.

Of course you need people to manage those things.
You need people who actually understand and know what they are doing. Not just someone who was able to say the right things at interview.
Anyone who has worked on frontline knows that a lot of managers are actually clueless.
Maybe they need to work their way up in a company. Old school I know but at least you’d have a manager who knows the role they are managing.

Lots to read later.

@GoodOldTrayBake

Someone else said they aren’t quangos and I asked why. I posted a bbc explanation of quangos earlier on this thread - just cut and paste it below.

Why is a task force different to a quango?

I presumed a task force researches an area and gives advice and info to the gov so falls under Quango as per the BBC article. Is this incorrect?
What do quangos do?
They can deliver public services, give advice or regulate behaviour. Quangos can range from tiny committees that meet a few times a year to organisations with multi-million pound budgets and thousands of staff. There are several different types:
Those with executive powers to actually do something. Examples include the Environment Agency, Regional Development Agencies, national galleries and museums, regulators such as Ofcom
Advisory bodies which give independent, expert advice to ministers on a range of matters - such as the Committee on Standards on Public Life, Boundary Commission
Watchdogs that set standards and regulate behaviour, such as bodies which look at prisons, immigration removal centres etc.

i was responding to a question another poster asked, i was not going to say that on here unless it matches with the ops; op

Sorry to those who are worrying about redundancy. I hope you find new (and better) positions quickly.

Someone above said they think this is cutting government ‘Doge’ style. Do you think he has got this idea from the USA in order to make savings? I don’t remember it being in Labours pre election manifesto.

Do you think more cuts and redundancies are to follow then?

Must be so tough in the ICB world along with NHSE colleagues. I thought NHSE was delegating more work to ICBs - obviously with NHSE going to DHSC and ICBs losing 50% of the workforce that wont know happen. What a mess Labour are causing to Healthcare. So many crucial fantastic colleagues are losing their jobs.

Labour made no mention of abolishing NHS England or slashing ICBs in half in their manifesto! ! What is going on ? are they trying to emulate Trump ?

I mean, crashing the economy wasn't in their manifesto either, so they have to make more cuts than they planned. Maybe if they hadn't increased the super massive black hole through their own actions....

Only Labour could do this, because you would get the typical calls of "don't privatise the NHS" if the Tories did it, the Tories last proposed nationalising GPs and were met with howls of "don't privatise the NHS".

The NHS employs 1.34 million people, is the world's fifth largest employer and I estimate that 1 in 20 works in the UK works for the NHS in some manner.

I don't think it has anything to do with Doge.

The NHS is broken. We all know this.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again.

If NHS England was introduced by the Tories in 2012, and under its work has seen spending increase, patient waiting lists increase, health records worsening and generally deliver worse services, then clearly something isn't right somewhere along the way within the infrastructure.

Throwing money at it won't solve the problem if it's not rebuilt and started again.

I worked in the NHS for 25 years, also in an ICB for the last couple but took MARS in a restructure 2 years ago. In that time I have survived several ‘restructures’ and efficiency measures. Every time staff were made redundant or moved elsewhere, sometimes to be rehired later on. The same people just get recycled in the NHS. No savings are made on staff costs!

The task force vs quango is interesting so I’ve googled it.

The independent mention Task Forces in this article. It’s an old article but very enlightening. It suggests Blair started using Task Force as a term. They suggest task forces are another name for quango but still ‘jobs for politicians friends’.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/task-force-a-quango-by-any-other-name-1139307.html

Err Abolishing NHS England is exactly the sort of thing the Tories should have done years ago... cutting unnecessary bureaucracy... is supposed to be their "thing" isn't it?

Nowt to do with Privatisation.

The NHS needs a big shake up and Labour are willing to do it.

Hopefully, the jobs lost are one which are not truely needed.

If the Tories were doing it everyone would be shouting about how they are the "nasty party".

Cuts including welfare cuts are also due to wiping out all spending headroom, thanks to their budget and policies.

What on earth has cutting out an unnecessary body like NHS England, which has nothing to do with direct patient care, got to do with the Tories and the Nasty Party claim...

Numbers working in admin in the NHS has doubled since 2010, yet patient care has gone down and waiting lists up...

Talk about clutching at straws....

Ha thought you'd be for keeping NHS England @EasternStandard

Sorry but non-clinical staff play a valuable role too.

Saddens me reading this post as a NHS worker and the narrative around non-clinical bashing.

Perhaps you’re right, but my understanding is that a quango is a body that sits outside of the relevant government department - so a non-public body delivering public services. Of the list you’ve written, some are just bodies or committees within existing government departments eg the Fair Work Agency.

You do realise NHSE came from DHSC, and they are taking it back? A lot of people in NHSE will be going full circle and back to the civil service.

The government are stupid, because how they have conducted this means the good and talented ones will leave and go elsewhere. It's the people who sit on their laurels without other options who will sit tight and be TUPE'd back to DHSC.

It could be good if managed well, but the government have already shown they are going to mismanage this.

All too true.

When the number of PCTs was halved in 2006, the number of people employed in PCTs actually went up.