AIBU to feel outraged that Kyle Clifford is able to refuse to attend court today?

[HappySonHappyMum]

I am absolutely outraged that Kyle Clifford can choose not to attend court to hear his sentence and be forced to listen to the impact statements being read out by John and Amy Hunt. I'm literally sitting here crying with rage and sadness right now listening to their words. He should be dragged there and forced to listen, he lost all rights when he committed rape and then murdered three women in cold blood. Why does he even have a choice?

The worrying thing is they'll be some women, although not necessarily those exact ones writing to him in prison. I know that Peter Sutcliffe was never short of a fan letter.

Carers will come into the prison and help him. Similar to a package of care that someone would have in the community with carers coming into their home.

haven't read the whole thread but thought this was going to be stopped after Letby did exactly the same thing. These monsters delight in inflicting misery on others but are nothing but cowards

You wonder about the mentality of these women. Wasn’t there someone who was planning on marrying Levi Bellfield recently?

I just finished reading this - harrowing.

John confirms what I thought - that Clifford came from a garbage family. He explicitly states that his family knew he bought the murder weapons and did absolutely nothing. What vile people.

I wish they could be charged for an adjacent offence. It’s not common for people to buy crossbows in Enfield for totally legitimate and safe purposes, is it?

I was agreeing with you. I’m bemused by posters wanting to add 10% on or double it!

Nah, I think he’ll kill himself if his life doesn’t otherwise come to an abrupt end.

Realistically, he has lost all control:

• For whatever reason he didn’t want to admit rape, likely because it didn’t play into the narrative he has been trying to control.
• He likely fudged up his previous suicide attempt on purpose, and was hoping the judge would take pity on him. eg give his punishment more mitigation or a sentence in a hospital etc

Ultimately kyle Clifford is running off of novelty and adrenaline. The reality hasn’t hit him just yet. He isn’t aware of just how much the public like Louise and how much he has been condemned.

He’ll likely appeal against his sentence but once that is done, he isn’t going to be able to handle the reality of life imprisonment whilst being paralysed. As soon as he gets used to his new routine, he won’t last.

Yeah that’s a bit far…! That’s not really on a par with extra time served for example. Or reduction of privileges in prison

Sunak and Starmer both made a few noises at the time, but it was bandwagon jumping. Starmer in particular knows full well why trying to drag people in would be unworkable.

I wonder if their father even bothers.

That’s why I find it odd the judge said they couldn’t really restrain him. Why the hell not!

What is the point of an impact statement if the scum isn't there to hear it. It's the only time the family's get to have their say and speak directly to the person that has turned their lives upside down.

He could have been wheeled in, gagged and restrained. How much fight could he have put up anyway he's dead from the waist down. Coward, I hope he's tortured everyday.

Slightly off topic but connected with this case, I get really angry about how these men get tabloid style nicknames, "The Crossbow Killer", "the Suffolk Strangler, "the Yorkshire Ripper" are just the ones that spring to mind, there will be more, . It confers a pseudo level of fame/infamy when the only thing that should be remembered is the women whose lives they brutally ended.

Do to him what he did to louise. Force him against his will. Tie him up. What a horrible existence and suffering this man will face. Disgusting piece of s*. Can't walk. Going to be abused until he dies. One day he might just think it wasn't worth it. Poor John will live the rest of his life thinking about his daughters and wondering what they would be up to now. The lost grandchildren, weddings, celebrations. And his wife gone too. Heartbreaking to the highest degree.

Just read John Hunt’s impact statement in full. Harrowing. There’s no other word for it.

I don’t know how that man (or his surviving daughter) get through the day.

Well he could rock the wheel chair over injuring someone, make himself vomit, scream, deliver 'home truths', fake a stroke or a heart attack, bite or strike people. I personally have had a knife pulled on me by a wheelchair user who had secreted it.
Honestly if it was easy or fruitful to have these people attend then it would have been done. But if they so choose, a reluctant attendee can drag the whole proceedings into chaos of the worst kind.

Definitely! The last thing we need to be doing is glorifying these people with attention.

You certainly do. Is it that their self esteem is that low they think it's their best chance of bagging a bloke? Either that or they think maybe they can change them I guess.

And wishing themselves engaged to Levi Bellfield? No words!

Is there any articles about this case that any people who’ve followed it closely would recommend? I keep seeing details that I didn’t know about, it seems like a lot of the articles now are quite brief.

Agreed. Refer to them in as bland a way as possible, by initials if need be or “the perpetrator”, but don’t give them the infamy they crave.

It puts me in mind of a poem I saw after the Manchester Arena Bombing:

This. Leave him where he is. Just because he is uncivilised, doesn't mean we have to be.

What is the matter with some people on here? I’m hopeful they’re not all perverse monsters, but so many of them sound like they are.

John Hunt and his daughter conducted themselves with dignity today. Some of the posters on here should learn from them.

Here are the judge’s full sentencing remarks for anyone who wants to read them. www.judiciary.uk/judgments/r-v-kyle-clifford/

Maybe they could put him and his brother together as cell buddies. 😋would solve a lot of support problems!

How long until the tabloids uncover what happened in the Clifford household. How did two sons end up with life sentences for murder. Sounds like Kyle didn't like his family much after reading Jon Hunts victim statement. I'm curious to know what went on. Plenty of people would have gone through much worse and don't resort to murder.

Also personally coming from a fractured family I definitely have always (and still do) feel both envy and curiosity towards 'perfect' families. Envy as mine is practically non existent and curiosity as I always wonder what it would be like to have such love and security and happiness from a family. There are so many triggers, around Christmas especially but also whenever I've hit a low, I've always wondered what it would be like to have a family rally around me.

I'm no psychopath so don't give it much more than a few thoughts with regards to what others have that I don't, but John is 100% correct, Kyle was jealous of their happy home and life. The guy wouldn't have felt good enough from his family upbringing, didn't have a will to work so his job failures would have exacerbated that, and louise touched a nerve and been the icing on the cake with her calling time on them. I wonder if their happy family no doubt rallying around her and telling her she didn't right thing, and him not having anyone to comfort him, was indeed the motivator here.