Putin has been facilitating migration into Europe to destabilise society

[ThisAlertRaven]

This Daily Telegraph article today explains how Putin has been supporting migration into Europe. And it's obviously been working as Reform etc are using it radicalise people!!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/08/russia-putin-immigrants-weapons-hybrid-warfare-libya/#comment

The poster wasn't quoting a source because the information hasn't been neatly put in a "source" such as your source which has been neatly put together by a foundation with huge amounts of money and resources and time at their disposal who are seeking to illustrate that their pro immigration idealogy is cogent. The poster was instead saying that anyone who looks at the statistics and uses critical or independent thought will see the problem, but that no one has yet compiled the relevant info and reported on it, so as to provide you with a "source"

Should they challenge what your source says? Or spend time finding every single reference to statistics they have ever seen and linking? Well, to be fair, your source has vast amounts of money and resources at their disposal with people who can sit and do nothing else other than put together "facts" which may or may not be correct and it is darn impossible for mere mortal MN posters to find the time to go through, fact check and then write out how the figures have been manipulated if they have been. The other poster presumably doesn't have the time to go back and find every single statistic and link them for you. But you could look for them yourself if you wish. Is what I think they meant.

I might be wrong, and they can correct me if so.

In the meantime, a word to the wise, a lot of people are very poor and suffering at the moment. A bit of respect would not go astray.

This does not accurately represent the Migration Observatory at the University of Oxford.

The one organisation from amongst their funders you mention, Unbound Philanthropy (a not-for-profit), is one of 14 current funders. Others include the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council, Research England (a public body), Oxford University’s John Fell Fund, and so on.

It is not “basically funded by extremely pro-immigration, extreme liberal groups”.

You are spreading disinformation.

The source is funded exactly as I have said. I am NOT spreading disinformation and it is a damn cheek that you are accusing me of this. And a bit odd given that you have said that you have "no agenda" and have "not taken sides".

The fact that there are other funders doesn't detract from what I said. I didn't use the word "only".

You have said that it is also funded by other funders - I don't know who funds the other funders and so on down the line and nor do you. When you have listed off all the funders, and all the funders of the funders, so on, down the line, can you report back? I'd be interested to know who funds the groups you list and the others.

Sorry, as kungfoo has pointed out, I wrongly referred to "your source" here - I should have said "at least one of the funders of your source".

Hope that is okay with you, now @kungfoofighting and to be fair you would have been right to pick me up on this one - it was was not an intentional mistake so no "disinformation".

Brexit was encouraged by Farage. So working backwards and listening to his admiration for Putin you eventually end up with Putin. Best thing that was done to aid Putin was for the U.K. to break from Europe.

I apologise for my first post, I don't think it came across as intended so i asked for it to be deleted. I will try again.

I don't think that in modern times a flat border with the west is going to be very relevant, and in relation to trade I am not sure I agree with your analysis, but I do agree that sometimes history can shape present day attitudes.

I found what you said about foreign policy being "irrational" and wellknown strategies to destablising the west to be really interesting - can you give examples?

The US -with Britain's spineless support - has been destabilising the world leading the people wanting the flee their home countries!

You are making the claim that the pp’s source is “funded by extremely pro-immigration extremely liberal groups [plural]”, you back it up.

As you pointed out earlier, I don’t have a particular ‘side’ here; I just dislike disinformation and careless misinformation.

In fact not only did I not use the word "only", I used the words "amongst others" upthread and you should reasonably have inferred this here. I appreciate you got confused about these words but to be clear "amongst others" means that the funder I referred to was not the only funder. So there really was zero disinformation. I said clearly that the funder I was referring to was "amongst others" and that means there were other funders and i didn't pass comment on their ideology one way or the other. It would be good if you could look them all up and all the funders down the line and report back though as i would be interested.

Unless you thought that my source was spreading disinformation?

Or you thought my summary of what my source said was wrong? If so, give me some wording which correctly sums it up.

But why would Putin do this when diversity is our strength and our nations are built by immigrants? It doesn't make sense why he would send us such a gift.

HappydaysArehere
Brexit was encouraged by Farage. So working backwards and listening to his admiration for Putin you eventually end up with Putin.

Except that Farage was a founding member of UKIP in the early 1990s - which pre-dates Putin's influence in Russia.

One of the multiple funders may have ties to pro-immigration sources but the observatory is a respected research institute. You are attacking strawmen because you cannot challenge the data.

I don’t care about the background of one of the funders. I care about the quality of the work produced by the observatory.

I didn't read your first post before it was deleted so no worries.
I do think the geography of Russia/Ukraine is relevant in this war. Of course modern technology changes things but it would be a very different war (and Russia/Ukraine very different countries) if there was a big sea between them, or a big mountain range. The fact it is just flat farmland that tanks can roll across is still relevant to both countries. Its a practical concern, but its also harder for country like Russia to have a clear settled idea of its borders - where it begins and ends than countries like the UK which has had an empire in the past but always had a nice neat sea. It matters the same way that Russia not having a warm water port (unless you count Crimea) and Turkey's control of the strait is relevant to them.

War/foreign policy being irrational/emotional is not a new theory. Clauswitz is always quoted as saying "war is diplomacy by other means" and its taken out of context to suggest war is somehow a rational continuation of politics. Really, he was arguing that war was part of a "trinity" "composed of primordial violence, hatred, and enmity, which are to be regarded as a blind natural force; of the play of chance and probability within which the creative spirit is free to roam; and of its element of subordination, as an instrument of policy, which makes it subject to reason alone." So there is reason there, but also chance and emotion. I don't think people have changed that much since he wrote it. Plus, when people talk about "rational" they usually mean "in line with how I see the world/what would be most convenient to me" and I think that leads to people going "but why would X do that. Its not good for trade/him..." I think from Putin's perspective destabilising the West is the rational course of action. He is ex-KGB remember and has never viewed the West as a friend. Even if to you/me it would be better if everyone just worked together for more stability.

@PerkingFaintly
"It's a win-win for them – as long as they are utterly ruthless and see civilian populations just as more fodder for their plan."

Russia absolutely sees civilian populations as fodder... even their own