Putin has been facilitating migration into Europe to destabilise society

[ThisAlertRaven]

This Daily Telegraph article today explains how Putin has been supporting migration into Europe. And it's obviously been working as Reform etc are using it radicalise people!!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/08/russia-putin-immigrants-weapons-hybrid-warfare-libya/#comment

At least this is an acknowledgment that vast amounts of immigration does destabilise countries.

The other questions we should ask ourselves are: who are the forces within our own borders who are executing this destabilising strategy? Why are there influential westerners supporting this? Are there, effectively, enemies within who want destabilisation and know that immigration will achieve this?

This destabilisation strategy would not have worked without our consent. Yet we know that the vast majority of brits and other europeans don't want such high immigration levels. We see the negative effects of these policies every day on our streets and yet we are gaslit into thinking we can't cope without huge numbers of immigrants: supposedly us natives are too workshy, too inefficient, too small minded. Do the deep state forces actually know that diversity is not our strength, but want it anyway?

This is one of these areas where xenophobes have a huge amount to answer for.

Migration absolutely should be discussed, like every economic issue and every other part of local services planning, etc etc.

But all my life, it has been extremely hard to have any rational discussion of it because as soon as you start, xenophobes come out of the woodwork complaining about the "Them". "Their" food, or music, or "them" marrying "our" daughters... It's endless.

You then get a knee jerk of people trying to pre-empt the xenophobic attacks.

And it all goes round in a horrible dance.

The end result is we become unable to have any kind of constructive discussion, of the kind we might expect on, eg where to build a new hospital.

It wasn't all of our choice at all, the ones that didn't want any of this were called "racists"....

Yes, these awful immigrants ruining our society. Men like Adil El Tayar, Alfa Sa'adu, Habib Zaidi and Amged el-Hawrani…

Actually those men were the first named doctors to die in the UK from Covid while trying to save patients lives.

I’ve reported this post as I think the racism crosses a line.

The outcome of the vote was massively invested in and manipulated by shady outfits like Cambridge Analytica

Did you never read the investigative report by Carole Cadwallr?

But it hasn't worked has it? @kungfoofighting

lol are you being sarcastic?

The answer to your questions are yes. No government in the past several decades has attempted to limit it in any meaningful way. Why not? There are multiple reasons for this, including political, ideological and good old fashioned back handlers into politician’s pockets in order to safeguard that steady supply of cheap labour. Only it’s not working any longer as many of those who come now are economic migrants who have absolutely no intention of working. I have said on another thread that it is the working class who are less able to organise and articulate the issues, who suffer the negative outcomes the most and have been for years only to be called bigots and racists for attempting to express their issues with it. Now the problem is so big that the middle classes are starting to feel the squeeze which was inevitable - hence we will now start seeing carefully curated articles blaming anyone but our politicians for this horrific mess we are in. Blair kicked it off, the insipid, ideologically captured Tory government of the last 14 years let it spiral out of control and now we have Starmer who is completely ideologically captured, preferring to do the bidding of the globalist organisations who are also lurking in the background, who will finish the job.

To fe very clear though, it is not OUR fault. We, as an electorate have routinely voted against these policies and been ignored. It is our political class. I admit though it will be interesting to hear the cacophony of complaints from the middle classes who didn’t give a fig when it was only the grubby working classes who were struggling with impact of mass, uncontrolled immigration.

What should have been a fairly dry referendum (because no one was really talking passionately about the EU in 2015 or 2014), was seized upon by nefarious opportunists with shady agendas and ultimately became enormously divisive

I’m sure we all know people who fell out with each other (friends, family, acquaintances) over Brexit. It seriously undermined and damaged social cohesion in the UK.

Kung fu that's because what started out as a sensible trading partnership suddenly morphed into a social experiment and open borders and no one had a vote on that

Unless Tony Blair is working with putin because if he hadn't relaxed those eastern European traders rights we wouldn't probably have had brexit at all.
People lives were definitely impacted by sudden large numbers of people arriving.

@Adamante in a way but the last GE was a vote for soft policies. We'll continue to see places such as those in the op exploit that.

Not sure people will get with addressing the issue via votes. We'll be comparatively the easiest if we don't change. Even more that we already are.

I agree with your points generally on many ignoring this or using accusations etc to avoid the reality.

You said upthread

“I don't understand the logic of "putins hand behind brexit"

This is what I’ve responded to.

I think you’ve veered off course

It sounds like you haven’t read or researched much about what’s known about Russian interference in Brexit

Adamante
To fe very clear though, it is not OUR fault. We, as an electorate have routinely voted against these policies and been ignored. It is our political class. I admit though it will be interesting to hear the cacophony of complaints from the middle classes who didn’t give a fig when it was only the grubby working classes who were struggling with impact of mass, uncontrolled immigration.

Did you see the thread recently on the shortage of jobs for newly qualified doctors because overseas applicants were being recruited instead? I made a similar point on that thread, the silence was deafening.

I concluded there are two types of "foreigners coming over here and stealing our jobs" conversations:

1. the white van man edition = always racist and/or xenophobic
2. the prosecco edition = nice middle class people discussing the scandal of their little darlings struggling to get graduate jobs.

The hypocrisy is staggering and nauseating.

This. Exactly this.

People argue that there is nothing racist about objecting to large scale immigration and they are right…but too often bigots and xenophobes start interjecting (conflating “ethnic minority” with “non British”, engaging in collective blame and responsibility, making wild claims and pushing and promoting stereotypes) and it pushes reasonable people away from the discussion or leads to them pre-empting the xenophobia / racism before it starts.)

That’s an incredibly high number of students born outside the UK. Even in my inner city Birmingham schools most of the kids were British.

The UK will soon be an authoritarian shithole too

And that post you quoted is an example of how xenophobes have ruined the ability to have those discussion.

And yet every single time the discussion has been attempted, they are told they’re racist/bigoted/Gammon etc. See the point I made about the working classes, who have always been the first to be affected but who are often not able to organise, or articulate their issues effectively - those are often the “xenophobes” you’re referring to.

So essentially it’s not what they say it’s how they say it that’s the problem?

Only it’s not working any longer as many of those who come now are economic migrants who have absolutely no intention of working.

This makes no sense @Adamante .

Economic migrant simply refers to those migrating for economic purposes as opposed to seeking asylum / refuge. Why do you assume none of them want to work?

And yet every single time the discussion has been attempted, they are told they’re racist/bigoted/Gammon etc.

Agree you only have to look at mn over last couple of years.

I would suggest that indoctrinated, middle class, uni educated professionals who labelled any discussion as racist/xenophobic and ruthlessly and abusively shut it down are equally responsible for the lack of coherent, reasonable discussion around mass migration.

Racism and xenophobia is always a problem. That’s what I object to. (Such as claiming migrants arriving don’t want to work and just leach off us.
I don’t know how they simultaneously “steal our job” but also “have no intention of working”.)

A discussion about the challenges of mass migration that does not lean into racism and xenophobia is absolutely fine.

That you seem not to see that difference and think it’s just me objecting to “ not WHAT they say but HOW they say it, is disturbing.”)

Go and look up the stats for none working, benefit claiming migrants housed in social housing. Just look in for example London, Leicester or Birmingham to get a sense of things. These figures are obsfucated and difficult to find all in one place so you’ll have to do a bit of work to find them but I am sure you’ll manage if you want to.

You would be wrong.

But that is your right.

You also have a very simplistic way of viewing things: working class in the blue corner, middle class in the red corner.

As if there aren’t working class people who object to the xenophobes and racists who try to derail reasonable discussion and if there aren’t middle class people who are also racists and xenophobes.

Your stereotypes are tiring.