Putin has been facilitating migration into Europe to destabilise society

[ThisAlertRaven]

This Daily Telegraph article today explains how Putin has been supporting migration into Europe. And it's obviously been working as Reform etc are using it radicalise people!!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/08/russia-putin-immigrants-weapons-hybrid-warfare-libya/#comment

Why do you think the benefits bill has suddenly spiralled out of control in the last few years.

Have you seen the breakdown in nationality for those receiving these benefits? The majority are from the UK, as is right, but increasing numbers are not.

And the government has decided the solution to this is to attack and remove the safety net for the most vulnerable in society, the most severely disabled. There will be blood spilt if the rumours for the spring budget are true.

The classism of MN absolutely beggars belief, and the inability for posters to see it in themselves is fascinating. I’ve been waiting for a thread such as this for years, waiting for us to reach the point when certain types of MNetters themselves began to feel the squeeze and I admit to taking some grim satisfaction in it.

I would suggest that indoctrinated, middle class, uni educated professionals who labelled any discussion as racist/xenophobic and ruthlessly and abusively shut it down are equally responsible for the lack of coherent, reasonable discussion around mass migration.

You're not wrong here. Maybe not even equal but more so. Whether people will actually vote to deal with it I guess we'll see.

We're certainly in the mire with nothing to stop the exploitation of soft policies for the next few years.

”You would be wrong”

Thank you for this perfect example of why this discussion has been impossible to have.

“You are wrong”. Full stop.

😁

You claimed that economic migrants don’t want to work. The fact that there are some migrants who don’t work does not make your earlier statement true.

You can see that right? You also claimed that migrants were taking our jobs but now claim that they don’t work. Which is it?

As for your claims about migrants not working:

In 2022 migrant men were more likely to be employed that UK born men. For women the reverse was true but only slightly:

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-labour-market-an-overview/

In 2022, the employment rate of working-age migrant men (82%) was higher than that of the UK-born (78%) (Figure 2). Most region-of-origin groups had higher employment rates than UK-born men. Among women, the overall employment rate for working-age migrants was 71%, slightly lower than for the UK-born (73%). However, EU-born women had unusually high employment rates (80%).

For more recent figures - from the last quarter of 2024:

In the fourth quarter of 2024, approximately 81.9 percent of people born in the European Union but living in the UK were employed, compared with 74.7 percent for UK nationals and 74.4 percent for people outside the EU and UK. Since 2006, the employment rate for people born in the EU has consistently been higher than UK nationals and non-EU nationals.

Economic migrants have similar employment rates to UK nationals and for EU economic migrants they are more likely to be in work than UK nationals.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/915732/immigrant-employment-rate-uk/

I tried to research your claim about the percentage of migrants in London and Birmingham in social housing and out of work and data is hard to come by.

Can you cite a source for your claim?

But you are wrong though.

It’s not an impossible discussion to have if people don’t resort to tired stereotypes. You have not done that instead of making it a silly boxing match between middle class and working class Britons.

Can you provide a link to that image?

And also a link to the breakdown of benefits (only one form of social security spending) my immigration status? All the data shows immigrants and UK nationals employed at similar rates.

And I have sourced all my data.

If the figures are so “difficult to find” how are you able to quote this?

This goes back to my issue with this discussion. How is reasonable debate possible with people who mistake their feelings and stereotypes as facts?

I agree and in a way I can't wait until it finally catches up with them and theirs.

Claim: MIgrAnTS aRE moRE liKeLY to LIvE in SOciAL housing.

The reality:

Migrants have lower homeownership rates than the UK-born, but the exact figures depend on the definition of a migrant
People born overseas are far more likely to be in private rented accommodation than UK-born people. In 2021, 43% of non-UK-born people living in England and Wales owned their home, compared to 67% of the UK-born (Figure 1). Residents born in EU countries had lower homeownership rates than their non-EU counterparts, with over half living in privately rented accommodation.
The foreign-born were marginally less likely to live in social housing, which includes social rented housing (typically at 50% of market price), affordable rented housing (at around 80% of market price), and rent-to-buy/own housing schemes (which allows people to rent a home at a reduced price while saving for a deposit to buy it).
The picture is similar in Northern Ireland, while homeownership rates are lower in London for all country of birth groups.

ALSO

Migrants who had lived in the UK for shorter periods were also less likely to live in social housing. This trend reflects the fact that people with most types of temporary immigration status are ineligible for social housing. See the Understanding the Policy section above and the Housing Rights Information website for details about the different housing rights of migrants.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-and-housing-in-the-uk/#:~:text=Migrants%20have%20lower%20homeownership%20rates,all%20country%20of%20birth%20groups.

I do believe asylum seekers and refugees may have higher rates of social housing but they are:

1. Not economic migrants
2. Not allowed to work (at least pending approval of their case.)

The xenophobes were small enough in number to easily be ignored.

It was the vicious accusations of racism and xenophobia which made conversations about immigration impossible. MN offers plenty of evidence of that.

UKIP all but disappeared after the referendum and now because nothing has changed wrt to immigration we have Reform. Some people seem to think they will implode before the next election, they could be right, but be careful what you wish for, my prediction is that if they do implode then what will rise from the ashes will be far more extreme.

Where are we now? The populist right rising in popularity all over Europe. It's a very predictable reaction to cancel culture, the writing was on the wall at least 13 years ago but it didn't stop the insults coming from the "tolerant and inclusive left". You reap what you sow but sadly so will the rest of us too.

Policing conversations about immigration seems to have been a massive own goal so far but feel free to keep on doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

The xenophobes were small enough in number to easily be ignored.

It was the vicious accusations of racism and xenophobia which made conversations about immigration impossible. MN offers plenty of evidence of that.

Exactly. And given the moderation it's deleted anyway.

Now we're under a year in with policies that will allow the exploitation to grow, quickly too.

So then what? Just wait for the next GE. It's far enough away for this to be a real issue.

Quick archive link to avoid the Telegraph paywall.

.

@JHound this topic has come up on mn over the years and there has been the same reaction each time as @Adamante has posted.

I disagree. They are the loudest and the majority. Although of course how you view it will depend on if you are a target.

And even if I was being charitable and say the people who appear to be loudly racist and xenophobic are being neither: when people make wild outlandish claims that are not supported by the available data, then it’s fair to ask what it is rooted in.

And where are “discussions on immigration being policed”?

It is literally THE topic de jour and has been for decades!

What reaction? People discussing it, pointing out inconsistencies and asking people to cite their sources?

At which point those asking for sources and pointing out inconsistencies are accused of trying to “shut down debate” and “hating working class people”.

I question who is actually trying to “shut down the discussion.”

Everyone knows we’ve lost our culture, in London. No more chirpy Londoners proud of their great capital. It’s trashed. Broke Britain, indeed. Job is done.

AND we aren’t supposed to mention it.

Along with Ronald Regan, George Bush Sr and John Major.

We in the West thought we had fixed things permanently. It seemed inconceivable anyone would want to restart the Cold War and we wound down militaries in response - it was a win/win at the time.

@JHound no clearly not that. Accusations of bigotry or racism where none is apparent as @Adamante said. There have been plenty of posters doing that over the last few years.

The inability to address a soft system which is enabling others to exploit it as in the op.

Now we're under a year in with nothing to counter it, so a few more years of a growing problem.

You seem very keen on people providing evidence for their claims and yet you casually assert that xenophobes are both the loudest and the majority?

Where is your evidence?

People wanting to discuss population growth of nearly a million people in one year are not targeting individuals they want a conversation about an unsustainable government policy.

Archived link.

@JHound

You are the absolute epitome of the why this discussion has been so obstructed. You cannot admit there is any even slight value in anything any other poster holding alternative views might have to say. You are utterly entrenched in your own ideological position. Now the problems are beginning to affect us all and the discussion forced to become mainstream now the impact of mass uncontrolled migration is clear and can no longer be hidden, but still you deny and cling to your luxury beliefs and “it’s all the xenophobes fault anyway” rhetoric. I get it, it’s hard to acknowledge when you’ve been wrong, and you’re certainly not alone, so you must hide behind your carefully chosen links and “evidence”. In around a decade, maybe less, this situation will implode and I imagine you’ll still be here with your fingers in your ears telling yourself that if only those who tried to raise the issues at the outset had done it an acceptable and politely articulated manner we wouldn’t be in this mess. I hope that is of some comfort to you.

We're certainly in the mire with nothing to stop the exploitation of soft policies for the next few years.

What does that even mean? I’ve read it four times and it still doesn’t make sense.

Keep reading 😂