How to Persuade Parents to Put Heating on Due to DF's Pneumonia

[bigkahunaburger]

So I wrote a post a while back around Christmas time about a big fall out with my parents about not heating their home and getting the hump with me for being cold. I got a lot of great advice, but this is related but a different issue as its about my Dad not me.

So my DF is mid 70s and he has had a recent nasty bout of pneumonia, and he got better and now its come back and knocked him for six. My DPs have form for never putting the heating on, DM complains constantly of a headache when its on, and DF always defends her and claims he's fine, he's not cold etc (I really think he is but he is just appeasing her). DM is lovely to him - they are lovely to eat other - and fusses over him, especially now he's sick. Bringing him lovely meals, checking his oxygen levels and generally clucking round him etc. BUT the heating is never on, and all the windows are open and its positively baltic in there still. I believe that this caused the pneumonia, and even if it didn't it has certainly exacerbated and made him worse. I've talked to them endlessly about this (and DM gets VERY offended, defensive and upset - and then DF gets mad at me and defends her claiming he's fine and not cold). After I nagged her to promise she wouldn't have the heating below 21 and she did, I have purposely turned up unannounced, in the evening, and every time its baltic, and I have to keep my coat on and leave quite quickly.

My brother does the same, and he's really cross and thinks mum is selfish and the headaches are bullshit. DB wants me, him, and other DB to go round and do an 'intervention'. I do but I'm also wary cos DM tends to get really angry and cries, and then DF get super angry (he is an uber protective husband). I don't know what to do.

The latest is they are being smug and saying they read with pneumonia you need a cold dry home so they are right to do what they are doing. I can't find nothing that says anything of the sort. All materials state that yes dry - and a humidifier is a good idea - but COLD - absolutely not. I've sent her documents saying this. She has ignored me.

So, my AIBU is would an 'intervention' like my DB is suggesting be reasonable in this instance (we are VERY worried about how ill he is) and does anyone have any advice on how to get through to them?

Edit - I meant DF (as in Dear Father), I was thinking Dear Dad but just realised DD is Dear Daughter. Oops.

Good idea in practice but won't work if they want to spend time together.

Your parents can choose to do things that impact their health negatively, they are competent adults.

11???
sorry but it’s cruelty.
I think you need to adopt calm and cool approach with your parents.Talk simply and factually. Yes, it is bad for your Dad ‘s health and it is wrong. It is form of cruelty. Use calm tone of voice snd stop if mum is crying or anything. Try to be a bit detached and unemotional.

I also think that you need to seek advice from their GP. Yes, your parents would be mad so what?

Hi OP. I work in respiratory care . It's very important he stays warm in a room above 18 degrees at home and used all medication provided and drinks plenty fluids with gentle exercise, particularly if he has underlying lung disease. This https://www.asthmaandlung.org.uk/living-with/cold-weather may help its a national patinet advice service for lung issues. If not GP or if he has visiting copd team or the like call them . We can be quite blunt, and also helpful if moneys and issue

If he has a headache when it's on are you sure the gas is safe? Do they have a properly situated, working carbon monoxide detector with batteries?

They do need their heating on though. 18 isn't toasty and won't help his lungs.

According to my (mostly unreliable!) weather app, temps are gonna take a dive again.

We have one and yes, you can set it remotely.

It IS a Safeguarding concern. Your mum is neglecting your dad's health by prioritising her own delusional beliefs. Your dad is complicit and they are putting your dad's health at risk. I would write an in confidence letter to the GP as a next step. Detail the concerns and all the steps you have taken already to address the situation. Be blunt about the concerns and ask if a GP would be willing to do a home visit. Don't expect a reply from the GP. But they may act and if they don't, I would approach social care. I think you can imagine how terrible you will feel if this neglect leads to your dad's death. You sound beside yourself and I'm not surprised. Your mum sounds absolutely self-absorbed.

I think it's a good idea that your brothers visit and be very blunt with them. Your softly softly approach hasn't worked, has it? Yes DM will get upset but they need to hear it. They are jeopardising your father's health which could ultimately kill him. The time for pussyfooting around has passed. If you can't get through to them, you need to speak to their GP and/or adult social services.

If they are deemed to have capacity and social services and doctors feel they can make their own decisions, they may not get involved. But at least you will feel that you have done all you can.

Is there a thermometer in their house? How cold is it really? Could you negotiate that if the level drops between, for example, 17 degrees, they should put the heating on?

MIL is similar. Every window open, front and back door, no heating ever. Loves the sun, holidays loads, money is NOT an issue. It’s inexplicable.
She has control, and isn’t used to being answered back, so when DH angrily tells her it’s too cold she does accept it.
I hope your brothers can shock some sense into her and you can get some professional interventions for your DF, following the brilliant advice upthread. 💐

This is INCORRECT!

Of course you can make their GP aware of your concerns. You just make it clear to the doctor, that they must make any contact, look like it came directly from them. For example, as the OP's DF has pneumonia at present, it wouldn't be out of order for the doctor to call in, or telephone, to check on his well being, at which time, he/she can ask them what temperature they keep the home at, pointing out how important it is for him to keep warm, particularly with pneumonia.

you do understand they are grown adults and not children?

'Suggestions' like yours and the poster suggesting OP should 'take' her dad home (presumably manhandling the unwell pensioner into a car by force as he clearly does not WANT to go!) are utterly ridiculous, infantilising, and not to mention illegal! You can't steal things or fit locking boxes over heating controls in SOMEONE ELSE'S HOME!

How would you react if your mother in law came over and did those things in your house?

As inappropriate as OP's mother's behaviour is, they are both (apparently) compos mentis adults. She and her brothers can make their feelings known but that is it - they cannot insist what their parents do in their own home. The most she could do would be to try and speak to her father separately to see if he does want the heating on and just doesn't want to upset OP's mother, or if he too is fine with the current situation. If the second then there's little else to be done.

I sat up in my chair when I read this, because the whole thread is deeply reminiscent of my own grandparents.

We suspected OCD with my nan. Heating wasn't as big an issue (it was chilly in the house, but not as bad as your parents'), but she was stingy with food and money for most of her life. Always hung onto tiny bits of ancient leftovers (we assume this partly arose because of the rationing years), couldn't throw the mankiest scrap of fabric away without trying to make use of it - basically, "make do and mend" on steroids. Hated spending money on anything. She and my grandad were very much in love - she was a hopeless romantic with him and cared for his health religiously, and they would back each other to the hilt on everything.

But her tendencies grew worse. We think she was petrified of him dying as he aged and he suffered more health issues (he'd had a big health scare in middle age that may have initially triggered this), and so her OCD worsened in an attempt to somehow "control" this outcome. She tightened her control on what they ate and what was spent. She wore worn-through and even stained clothes despite having plenty in the bank and caring what the neighbours thought. If we bought her things, she wouldn't use them. She even started wrapping random objects in tissues and plastic bags and stuffing them in drawers around the house (definitely not dementia, she had all her marbles for another decade after). We didn't realise the full extent of it until after he died, but he must have been miserable by the end.

I can't imagine your mum would ever accept the suggestion of OCD, let alone go down a path to diagnosis. I don't know if suggesting she could kill him would snap her out of it or make things worse.

If you can work out what makes her anxious, could you alleviate that in the hopes that she loosens her grip? A message to the GP would be a good shout. Could one of you take them out for the day now and then, and another whack the heating on while they are out? That should get the house to a more respectable temperature without them having to actually sit in the house with the heating on. Agree with others that 21 sounds a bit high, especially as a target for them. We manage on 18. With spring approaching, our house is naturally at 17 or 18 most days because we haven't let the house get stone cold. It might actually be better to get them out of the house in a couple of weeks, because even the outdoors will be warmer! Could they consider a heat lamp for the garden? Surely that can't give her a headache, it's outside and she can sit away from it if she wants!

I'm sorry you're going through this. I wish I could offer a solution, but we never found one with my grandparents. 💐

ultimately lots of people do things that could endanger their life, and as long as they have capacity this is their choice

getting older does not mean you lose the capacity or right to make your own decisions, including ones that are bad for you.

if OP's parents smoked or were very overweight or ate a lot of unhealthy foods or drank too much, or went out for long bike rides despite having suffered an injury previously, would you all be advocating going into their home, stealing their bike, and literally throwing all their chips in the bin and emptying bottles down the sink?
No, because (as well as being illegal), you'd understand that however much you disagreed with the decisions they were theirs to make.

It would be different if the DF had asked for support or given any indication he was unhappy with the heating, as it is his home too. But until he does so OP has no right to do ANYTHING in anyone else's house.

If you wouldn't march into a friend's house, turn on their heating, lock the windows and install automated systems like google nest without their permission, you can't do it to your parents!
(unless of course you have PoA, which OP doesn't)

there isn't some magical 'but they are old' exemption that allows you to override other people's personal autonomy.

central heating gives me a headache too, it always has.
they’re adults at the end of the day and it’s their choice what they do in their home.

I like the sun and the sauna. They are very different to central heating which dries the air out.

I would die living in 21/22 inside my house!!

If the air gets dry pop a saucer of water over the radiator

I think speaking to their GP is a decent idea, they won't be able to give you any info but they can make sure your dad understands that the cold could be actively harmful to his recovery.

If your brothers want to use a different approach I wouldn't get involved, that's between them and your parents.

Suggestions to actively control their heating etc are nuts. You can't do that to other adults who have capacity. How would you react if they insisted you weren't allowed to have the heating on and locked you out of your own thermostat?!

At the end of the day adults are allowed to make stupid choices, you can make them aware it's stupid but you can't make them act on the information.

You may be able to compromise with an electric heater near your dad so it's warm in one area at least?

All of that is assuming your dad is happy with the status quo. If you think there may be any coercive control/abuse preventing him from heating the house then that's different and outside help is needed.

Ring adult services at their local council.. Your dm is effectively allowing your df to die... Do you want him to die and wish you had done more or piss dm off and send the authorities round there? Maybe the threat of him going into a warm care home might see her put the heating on..

What about you and your brothers op; do you smoke/drink/are overweight? Are you aware how much these things affect your health? Nearly 40% of cancers are caused by lifestyle factors. Should your parents come and go through your cupboards and remove any unhealthy items?
No; because you are adults who make your own choices. Why can’t your parents do the same?

I agree with those who say you can't take over their heating or force anything on them tbh. It would be quite wrong to try. Writing to their GP is reasonable though.

I'm also very pro opening the windows regularly and not overheating a house. That's different from keeping a chest patient in a cold house all day.

I do believe in being very blunt though. Make sure you wear enough layers to be comfortable as you can be when you visit. If they offer to take your coat, laugh shortly and say 'of course not Mum, it's ridiculously cold in here'. Offer to do active jobs in the house 'to try and stay warm'. Refer to the house as 'Pneumonia Towers.' Nothing to stop you having a temp app on your phone and knowing what the temperature is in there, and telling them. Leave early 'I'm too cold Mum.' You don't have to accept what they do as normal, even if you can't alter their choices.

All this talk of capacity and choice. It sounds as if this man doesn’t have any choice in the temperature of his home and doesn’t have access to any food. Is he allowed to make himself a hot cup of tea? Or does she control fluids too?

She is slowly killing him. If she was poisoning him with salt or something you would intervene even if it upset her?
In my own family the person ended up being hospitalised and we explained the coercive control and abuse to the hospital who rehomed him into a care home without either of them knowing until the day before and no consent from them needed.

I presume he has his own money and can contribute to heating. Adult social services and financial abuse spring to mind.

You are all complicit.