Worried about DD who is NC

[SMEHJmammy]

Afternoon all,
I have 5 DC, ages 18-26, my middle child is my 22 year old DD. DD and I have been no contact for almost 5 years (since she left for uni). The context of this is my other 4 children all have chronic health conditions/disabilities, DD was our only "healthy" child and as such she feels she was neglected. I feel awful about her feeling this way and miss her very much, she was never intentionally neglected but with 4 children with complicated needs she was the "easy" child. My ex husband and I definitely weren't the best parents to her, we missed parents evening, sports games etc. This was never because of a lack of love but rather being overstretched by the needs of our other children. Since the day DD left for uni, I haven't heard from her. She talks to her dad but also hasn't seen him in that time (he does insist on sending her money though) and she still talks to her siblings. She struggled with her mental health somewhat as a teen but we did go out of our way to provide her with as much support as we could, especially as some awful things external to family life happened. I was also told recently that she received a formal ADHD diagnosis, but this was never something anyone was concerned about when she was a child.
Anyway, DD has always been a very smart, responsible girl, she was head girl, straight As, she went to St Andrews and I know she graduated in the summer with a first class honours, and is now in London doing her masters.

Recently my eldest DS went to visit her, and he has come back feeling quite concerned, he said that she is drinking a lot, several week days after uni and on the weekends (out well into the early hours), she smokes weed (he said not like a "stoner" but socially), vapes, has used cocaine, seems to be just dating random men all the time. He also said she seems to be surviving on very little sleep, energy drinks and not enough food (she was anorexic as a teen).
I miss DD all the time, but I'm also feeling incredibly worried. I have tried to contact her to no avail, my ex husband says if he mentions anything about this to her she stops contacting him, and sends any money he has sent straight back. My DS doesn't know how to approach this and honestly neither do I.
So please mumsnet, what do I do?
AIBU to feel totally lost at dealing with this?

I think there's a lot here.
I was often described as the easy one. What that meant in reality was that I was expected to back down because my siblings had louder strops. If ever I stood firm (rarely) I was told how mean I was or on at least one occasion when they'd asked my opinion was told they were doing it my siblings way anyway.

Now I do have a lovely relationship with my parents, and they did show me that they appreciated it too. There were times I got to do something simply because they knew they could relax and it would be easy, whereas with the others it wasn't.
However it didn't stop the raw feeling of being hurt and less important.

But I'm also reminded of a family I followed on a blog for a while. I'm sharing this because I think it gives a bit of insight into how she might be feeling.

They had I think it was 3 girls and a boy. The oldest girl had a life-limiting condition and it coloured absolutely everything they did - as you can imagine. Also the FB page was set up to raise awareness of the condition, so naturally what they posted revolved round that.
But there were two things that stuck in my mind after the oldest had died.
First thing was, I think it was the boy's birthday. He'd have been about 8yo, the first after his sister had died.
They posted that he'd said at the end of the day that it was "his best birthday ever". And they took it to be that they had made such an effort, they'd done so well to make his birthday so special that even through the missing his sister it was good.
But I remembered the previous birthday where they'd explained how he'd wanted to do X and Y and they couldn't because his sister couldn't join in, and how they'd sat with his sister to watch him because she couldn't join in etc. And I wondered if actually the reason why it was the best birthday ever was because for the first time his parents had put their full attention on him and let him have what he wanted rather than what his sister needed/wanted.
The second was a photo of the 2nd girl getting their GCSE results. She's looking delighted, but they posted it about 2 months late - and wrote that they couldn't post it on the day because it was too close what would have been the oldest girl's 18th birthday, so they hadn't felt they could celebrate at the time. It was written in a way that totally assumed that was what their 2nd girl would have wanted.

Now I totally appreciate from their side, that those feelings were overwhelming. But it's showing how their sister just dominated everything, including events when the siblings should have been at the forefront.

I think if you do write, then you need to show that you understand fully that she felt side-lined. And don't do it with a "but we had to" or "but you have to understand..." or "you were the lucky/easy/something else one" because actually she does know. That doesn't stop it from hurting. It doesn't stop the time when you didn't prioritise her when it was important to her hurting - and the guilt she felt for hurting either.
Nor say "maybe we should have..." because you can't turn the clock back and be there for her when she needed you. Saying "maybe we should" is just saying "but oh dear we couldn't"

Acknowledge that she's hurt. Say how much you love her. Say you'd love to see her when she's ready. And ask if there's anything you can do for her.

And if she says there is, then don't come back with "we'd love to but I can't leave the others." If she doesn't reply, then don't hassle her.

Now you're worried about her.🙄

You're a couple decades too late.

Respect her wishes and leave her alone.

She drinks, smokes a little weed, does occasional coke and is dating. There's nothing outrageous there.

Honestly, I'm so sad for your daughter as mine had exactly the same issues. The ED, ADHD the weed etc. But...I've devoted myself for ten years so far to see her through it. Luckily she's on the other side but it took everything from me.

If you believe your anorexic child was the easy, healthy one you're deluded.

This is so sad. She's the "normal" one in a family of disabled and neurodiverse children. Two before her and two after. It must have been difficult for her growing up with her siblings' needs and you admit you were stretched as parents.

But to dismiss her ADHD diagnosis as simply as "we never saw that". Did you ever see her? She could easily have been struggling in ways you never "saw" but that came through in other ways, like her anorexia. It's very easy to see, as an outsider, why she chooses to be NC with you.

A question: upon your death, who will care for your 4 disabled children, if they cannot care for themselves?

Was it ever expected that your daughter, who appears neurotypical, will be doing that?

Another good reason for children going NC with parents is being expected to provide permanent care for siblings with disabilities after the parents' death. I don't know the extent of your childrens' disabilities, I'm not saying this is the case. But it is a common thing. Worth saying that it is not any sibling's responsibility to care for their disabled sibling, although many kindly do. The parents must provide for that care.

was also told recently that she received a formal ADHD diagnosis, but this was never something anyone was concerned about when she was a child.

Its worth doing some reading about how ADHD presents in girls & women, because it does so very differently to boys & men. In girls, it often goes undetected until adulthood- or has often gone, this is changing as the difference in presentation is recognised. Its why there's been an explosion in diagnoses, both in adult women and in girls at school.

A few points about adhd in girls & women...

• can experience feelings more intensely than neurotypicals
• can experience rejection sensitivity (doesn't mean that a sense of rejection is unjustified however)
• can have a strong sense of justice & fairness
• masking: they spend their lives trying to fit in, win approval, cover up their difficulties, be socially appealing and "easy"
• adhd often won't be identified in girls until a change in life stage: moving up to the next school (primary to secondary, secondary to college/univeristy) or starting work.

At these points they can start to struggle desperately, the wheels can come off

This could be whats happened with your daughter and if she's used to internalising and not relying on her parents, she will shut you out.
This isn't to dismiss or belittle her experiences of growing up emotionally neglected at all - they are very much central to her cutting contact but I think learning about female adhd could be instrumental in helping you rebuild a relationship with her, when she's ready. A great resource is the ADDitude website.

It might also help to read about how emotional neglect impacts a child.

*if she ever wants to. For her, the relationship may be dead, and something she will remain utterly uninterested in resurrecting.

You're getting some very harsh responses from all the perfect parents here, OP!

I think some posters are forgetting how little was known about ADHD in girls when your DD was growing up. Many, many girls and women slipped through the net. It isn't your fault that you didn't somehow acquire today's understanding of ADHD ten years early. And also, many disabilities are not apparent at birth. Unfortunately there is no crystal ball that allows us to see into the future!

It's really hard to see your DC exhibiting risky and unhealthy behaviours, but this sort of thing is pretty common and most young people mature and come out safely the other side, so try not to worry too much about this.

With regard to her being no contact with you, I suspect that she does in fact want to hear from you, but she also wants to leave you in no doubt how she feels and "punish" you a little for when you (understandably) fell short sometimes during her childhood. Try to contact her from time to time, even if she doesn't initially respond, so she knows you're thinking of her. Perhaps send her a copy of a new book by a favourite author, or if you have her phone number you could sometimes WhatsApp her photos of family pets, if you have any. If these seem to be favourably received (or at least not rejected) you could try a card or letter saying you're sorry you had so little time to spare for her as a child, that you wish that you'd done things differently (although I do appreciate that it might not have been possible to do so), and that you love her and miss her and would love to see her. And after that, maybe suggest doing something together that she would enjoy - a theatre trip or
a film perhaps.

Don't contact her so often that it becomes annoying, but don't give up either. With maturity, she may come around and understand that nobody is perfect and that you had a lot to deal with too.

How did she pay for a Masters if she was NC with both parents?

This is very sad to read. But you even said she was the “easy child” but suffered from anorexia.

I too am struggling to understand why you had so many children when you already had children with chronic health conditions \ disabilities. Why?

Surely it's obvious that the disabilities didn't necessarily become apparent until the children were all born? There are eight years between the oldest child and the youngest child. Many health conditions are not obvious or not diagnosed until after the age of eight, and it would have been too late to keep the family to a more manageable size by then - all the children would have been born.

Five children is a large family, but it's not that unusual.

I'm NC with a family member and 100% do not want to hear from them. They know this as they know I'm NC and why. If they sent me WhatsApps, photos, cards, books, etc I'd report them to the police for harassment as it's been made clear to them that I want no contact.

OP's DD is an adult and has made it clear she wants no contact and why. As difficult as it is for the OP, her DD has her own agency and that includes rejecting a relationship with the OP.

Student Finance, loans, scholarships, grants, charities, employment, a combination of all of these.

Not everyone has their parents fund their education, I paid for all of my own without a penny from my parents.

I don't know what your reasons for being NC are but I presume that you have compelling reasons for it. But with respect, you have no more idea than I do about how this particular DD might feel about her mum trying to make amends. Perhaps if OP didn't make much effort, it would cause even more hurt for her DD ("Mum just gave up on me when I was 22 and stopped trying to contact me...clearly, she never loved me")

OP's DD hasn't been abused or cruelly treated. She was a little neglected, but that seems to have been unavoidable under the circumstances. Hopefully, with maturity, she'll have a little more understanding of her family circumstances, and more forgiveness for her parents.

I don’t think it sounds like she was a ‘mlittle neglected’, if OP even admits that she overlooked her daughter you know it must have been bad. She also left home at 18 having already decided to go NC and hasn’t been in contact for 4 years.

Being neglected is cruel and abusive. It doesn’t matter if her parents were stretched, they had 5 children. They may be able to justify it because they had a lot going on but that doesn’t mean that their DD needs to accept being neglected as a child.

I wouldn’t minimise what has happened to her. She speaks to her dad and not her mum so she’s made it very clear, and receiving messages sporadically from someone who caused you so much harm would be very disruptive and upsetting.

Maybe send a one off letter with a sincere apology and making it clear you have your door open, but don’t continue to main contact as it’s clearly not wanted, but do not make it about any concerns you have about how she’s living

Neglect is abuse. She had her own complex needs, yet was sidelined throughout her childhood. That ‘it was unavoidable’ doesn’t negate the damage that treatment did to her, and nor does it require her to think kindly of, or forgive, her mother.

That she left at 17/18 and hasn’t looked back, and won’t even entertain conversation about being in contact with her mother, would suggest that she wants is to be left the hell alone by her. You cannot assume that she secretly wants to be contacted by her, any more than she would secretly want to be contacted by a persistent ex. That’s straight out of the Stalker’s Handbook, frankly. When people say no, respect that.

This just reads like victim blaming. She was the child, her parents were the adults. It was their responsibility to meet her needs. And she wasn't a "little neglected", she was massively neglected. Even now her mum is downplaying the anorexia her daughter suffered. Apparently she was the "healthy" child despite having an illness with the highest mortality rate amongst psychiatric disorders. The mortality rate is 5-10 percent within 10 years. It's pretty dismissive to say the daughter needs to mature given she had to grow up before her time and barely had a childhood.

It's always the "oh lol perfect parents" brigade posting great screeds, and never the "I was that child" posters.

@SMEHJmammy DD was NOT your only "healthy" child, she also had (and still has) chronic health conditions/disabilities and also needed your support. Are you able to see why she feels the way she does?

I'm NC with a family member and every birthday is ruined by a stupid card that goes straight in the bin. NC is NC or it's stalking.

i’m sorry it sounds like you have a lot - it’s interesting though that you describe her as your only ‘healthy’ child yet later say she had anorexia as a teen.

You need to leave her alone.
She was under so much pressure to be perfect that all of it is coming out now. If she doesn’t want to speak to you she doesn’t have to.

That's a bit unfair. We don't know how much op has agonized and made efforts to get her help in regards to anorexia. It's one post, not a life history.

This was my thought, I have a very disabled DC, my second child and in order to make sure I met both his and my other older DC's needs, we decided to have no more. Having disabled children can also be very hard on a marriage - I don't blame her for feeling as she does.

How is this productive or helpful?

I agree with others, you should have used contraception instead of keep getting pregnant after your third. That was very irresponsible. Although since your son went and saw her and she speaks with her other siblings it doesn't sound like they have that serious disabilities (ie non-verbal etc) so I don't see an excuse to neglect her. But you did, you did neglect her. She was an easy child? Easy for you to ignore, more like it. She was trying to get your attention with anorexia. She needed her mum. She needed you. And you kept getting pregnant after her and basically left her alone. I can understand why she is NC with you. You're a failure of a mother in her eyes. You failed her and hurt her. She may in time forgive you. But she will never, ever forget. And that is something you will have to live with for the rest of your life.

My next door neighbour died of anorexia in her 30s. At the end she was basically a walking skeleton, and her hip bones were sticking out of her clothes. It was heartbreaking. Then one day her funeral was being arranged. Gone. Just like that. Lets just hope her dad and siblings/friends can keep an eye on her.

As for contacting her? I don't know. Only if you are willing to really truly fully apologise to her - without any justification or excuses.