Worried about DD who is NC

[SMEHJmammy]

Afternoon all,
I have 5 DC, ages 18-26, my middle child is my 22 year old DD. DD and I have been no contact for almost 5 years (since she left for uni). The context of this is my other 4 children all have chronic health conditions/disabilities, DD was our only "healthy" child and as such she feels she was neglected. I feel awful about her feeling this way and miss her very much, she was never intentionally neglected but with 4 children with complicated needs she was the "easy" child. My ex husband and I definitely weren't the best parents to her, we missed parents evening, sports games etc. This was never because of a lack of love but rather being overstretched by the needs of our other children. Since the day DD left for uni, I haven't heard from her. She talks to her dad but also hasn't seen him in that time (he does insist on sending her money though) and she still talks to her siblings. She struggled with her mental health somewhat as a teen but we did go out of our way to provide her with as much support as we could, especially as some awful things external to family life happened. I was also told recently that she received a formal ADHD diagnosis, but this was never something anyone was concerned about when she was a child.
Anyway, DD has always been a very smart, responsible girl, she was head girl, straight As, she went to St Andrews and I know she graduated in the summer with a first class honours, and is now in London doing her masters.

Recently my eldest DS went to visit her, and he has come back feeling quite concerned, he said that she is drinking a lot, several week days after uni and on the weekends (out well into the early hours), she smokes weed (he said not like a "stoner" but socially), vapes, has used cocaine, seems to be just dating random men all the time. He also said she seems to be surviving on very little sleep, energy drinks and not enough food (she was anorexic as a teen).
I miss DD all the time, but I'm also feeling incredibly worried. I have tried to contact her to no avail, my ex husband says if he mentions anything about this to her she stops contacting him, and sends any money he has sent straight back. My DS doesn't know how to approach this and honestly neither do I.
So please mumsnet, what do I do?
AIBU to feel totally lost at dealing with this?

Did you also take her to stately homes? (Yes its a reference)

I think some of these replies on this post are super harsh. I never post on mumsnet but feel compelled to say something.

None of us know the full extent of what’s true and what’s not. We weren’t there. It might be that OP was being super harsh on herself in the first place and the middle child’s upbringing wasn’t as bad as people making out.

The OP asked for advice and most people have come on to judge and make her feel worse. You can’t change the past but can try and make things better in the future so why not focus on this?

OP - sorry that you are going through this. My sister went through a period of blaming my Mum for her not having a happy childhood, this was after receiving therapy and the therapist indicating her issues were due to my mums parenting. However now she is later in life she realised our Mum wasn’t perfect because of lots of other reasons and factors. I mean, are any of us perfect? We aren’t always getting things right the whole time but it doesn’t mean we are overall bad people or parents.

like some other posters have suggested I think you can only give it time and let her know you are there. Hopefully one day she will see things differently. My sister and mum have a much better relationship now so there is always hope.

Take care x

And this is why she's NC, because even though you pay lip service and claim you understand her, you still dismiss her feelings and pretend it hasn't impacted her. Your daughter had to be the good child, the mature child to the point she masked so hard you didn't even know she had ADHD and still you don't think it impacted her.
You need a serious wake up call if you ever hope for her to have a relationship again.

It must have been a nightmare dealing with 4 let alone now knowing you actually had 5 kids needing support, so reach out to your DD and tell her that.

Tell her how sorry you are that you didn't spot she needed help and only intervened when she obviously needed it. Tell her you miss her and love her and if she needs anything you are there.

Ref her drinking etc, its standard when you're a student, so relax a little. She's an adult. However, her ADHD could push her to make bad choices, so I hope she's medicated. The best thing to do is hope she grows out of drinking once she starts work.

I have to admit I would have stopped having kids once I had 2 if they both had health conditions cos coping with more than that is not a life I would have choose for myself.

If replies are harsh, its because a lot of us recognise an attitude OP is displaying: "This is what happened, this how it was experienced, this is the correct interpretation of events, she can't have felt x because y."

Just to say OP, if anyone knows an E (Ella, Emily, Emma, Or Ellie probably!) who went to St Andrews, is now in London doing a masters, is the middle of 5 kids, 3 of whom have injuries from a car accident, has divorced parents, and has/used to have anorexia… this thread will probably get back to her and that is not going to help the NC aspect! We’re NC with FIL and would not be happy to find he’d written about it online.
Just mean… I hope you’ve altered details but I feel like probably not.

I had a child a bit like this. He was wise beyond his years, very good, never lost a house point… a cheerful darling of a child.

He did have stomach issues and occasional bouts of sickness. I eventually caught on that it was migraine caused by stress, there were skin issues too. He was working so hard at causing no trouble and being lovely to everyone that he wasn’t expressing his own problems and negative feelings. I had to reassure him constantly that he was allowed to get cross and be rude to me occasionally. That I might be unimpressed in the moment, but that it’s a normal part of life.

We were foster carers, he could see the challenges and demands the other children made and he tried desperately to be a contributor not a demand.

If you get the chance to talk to her again, it may be worth saying that you realise now she may have been trying to earn love and attention, and working hard to help the family, or to make up for the difficulties of her siblings, and be ‘no trouble’ and that you’re sorry you didn’t realise that at the time. That she doesn’t need to be perfect to be loved, and you’re sorry you didn’t show her that when she was at home.

You’ve clearly had an awful lot going on OP, and we all drop the ball sometimes. It’s so much easier to have perspective from outside the situation.

This is why when there are threads on here by women who want a 4th child I always comment that as one of four children my parents didn’t have the capacity to be good parents to all of us. They were stretched far too thin and I resent them for choosing to have so many children rather than parent the ones they started with properly.

People don't go five years without seeing a parent unless there has been a lot of damage done.
I think you should leave her alone. Maybe write a letter but expect nothing back. To leave your home at 18 and not return for five years + shows the level of neglect she felt.

I wonder if while she was being neglected other things may have happened you know nothing of. Vulnerable children often seem to become victims of other types of abuse while their parents are oblivious or disinterested. I hope I'm wrong.

Her childhood hurt her so much she went NC and you're here saying this . Her being more together then her parents wasn't a good thing, it was a sign she felt you weren't in control, it was a sign she was scared and struggling. Her going NC says it all and you're still here insisting things were good. If you can't see what you've done then theirs no point you contacting her, you'll just hurt her more.

@SMEHJmammy this is tough for all involved.

First I would write a heartfelt and genuine apology to her. NO excuses, NO “it was because she seemed together” or “the other kids needed you more” … just an all out heartfelt “we should have done better and I am truly sorry… “ I would end saying you love her and that you are there if she needs you and then leave it. maybe your DC can deliver it so you know it’s safe in her hands even if she chooses not to read it.

Second i would offer to pay for a therapist for her. Leave her find the person but just say if she ever wants therapy you will send money for it.

good luck x

Given OPs stance while Im sure it would hurt her daughter to see this it might be best in the long run. She'll know where she stands and can make a decision with the full facts moving forward.

I still don't know why you had 5 children, you haven't answered that. Having a family of that size is never in the interests of the children as far as I can see: it's generally either a religious thing, a second family thing, or meeting a need for the parents.
I hope people contemplating a big family on here who tend to only focus on the baby and child years read this.

L

Honestly, the time were you were supposed to be a supportive mum has passed and there's no way she's going to rely on you now. You had 2 'complex' children then her... and decided to have another 2 children? And you say she was the easy one who you neglected but then say she had anorexia? No she's not going to look to you for support now, leave her alone (like you have done for the first 22 years of her life!)

There you go op. Pop in a Time Machine and listen to all the completely unqualified psychologists on here who actually have not got a clue and do not know your dd!

I think you’ve been very honest and do recognise where she may have some unresolved issues but to go no contact with just you makes me think there is something else you’re missing?

Other than that the poster who suggested an honest letter with no excuses has been the most helpful suggestion on here. Sit down and do that.

Your minimisation is also disgusting, and expecting the daughter to be the one who 'sees things differently' is bloody victim-blaming! A child does not go NC for no reason. BELIEVE children! Not the OP who admits she neglected her child. And if the first post wasn't obvious her daughter suffered and she is minimising it, her responses definitely show her true colours.

It may be different for your family but in this case, the OP clearly neglected her daughter and her daughter truly suffered. Stop excusing it.

Everyone is saying leave her be, as a mum you should still message her now and again just to let her know you love her and you are there for her, she is still a young adult and has been throughout her no contact with you. What have you done over the past 5 years to contact her? If you've made no effort, maybe that's further validation that she is the bottom of the list and not held in mind by you.

It's easy to say with hindsight, but it feels as though she had to be your "perfect, easy" child and that her own emotional needs were neglected. The cork has come out of the bottle now she's away from you.

PS I think you need to send her a full, unqualified apology and let her absorb it. She may come back.

A lot of posters saying leave her be likely have experience of going no contact with a parent. It's a heart breaking decision, there has to be a lot of hurt to do this but sometimes it is needed to move on with your life and take time to heal. I personally find it really distressing and disruptive when family members try to casually make contact with me. I've made it very very clear it's not welcome. It's horrible advice to say keep persisting with contact when it clearly isn't wanted.

Not really. I’m not actually blaming anyone as we don’t actually know. These situations have so many nuances, how would any of us ever know the actual truth.
I was just trying to offer OP some words of hope when she has had a bit of a bashing.

To be fair, I think people are being harsh about the missed ADHD. It's very easily missed and lots of people get diagnosed as adults. Even if you had wondered about it when she was younger, from what you say about her behaviour, school probably wouldn't have supported a referral for a diagnosis, and would have said she was fine, and if they did it probably would have been turned down at triage stage (I've been shocked since starting to work with some aln in my role on some the young people whose referrals to neuro Diversity services have been turned down). If she was masking well enough to do well both academically, socially and in behaviour, then sadly ADHD or ASD are often missed and the effects of the masking on the young person not realised until later if ever.

And OP didn't know her family would be involved in a car crash leading to more disabilities and health problems when she had that many childre- how horrific for you all. She couldn't plan for that. 5 children in 8 years does seem ridiculous to me, but I guess going back a couple of generations that would have been normal and we wouldn't have seen those parents as neglectful.

However, reading this back OP you must see that you have relied on her being independent too much from an early age, and have also minimised her needs. That's understandable. Parents aren't perfect people and it sounds like you had so many demands on you. I find Mumsnet always expects perfection in all things from mums who post, while making all kinds of allowances and understanding of difficulties and differences for everyone else.

However, I was shocked you were saying she was the only child who hasn't had a chronic health condition when she had anorexia!

I don't think you can get in touch to lecture her about her lifestyle after being no contact- she'd be defensive of that and it would make things worse. And many young people living in London probably have similar lifestyles.

But encourage her siblings to keep contact, and like others have said maybe write to her apologising sincerely for the mistakes you made, without any minimising 'buts' or excuses, and let her know she's always welcome.

This is the problem. You keep listing all the wonderful things she did or had, but parents don’t seem to be one of them. You didn’t notice, you let her carry on by herself. She knew from very young you were just letting her get on with it. You even mention how anxious she was and it’s brushed off. Poor girl.

The fact she achieved so well despite such an extreme lack of support and in face of such difficulties is a testiment to her and her alone. Stop calling her the easy one when she herself had such a dreadfully difficult time, she just didn’t burden you with it.

Either genuinely apologise without making excuses or saying “we tried” “but” etc. or leave her tf alone.