Worried about DD who is NC

[SMEHJmammy]

Afternoon all,
I have 5 DC, ages 18-26, my middle child is my 22 year old DD. DD and I have been no contact for almost 5 years (since she left for uni). The context of this is my other 4 children all have chronic health conditions/disabilities, DD was our only "healthy" child and as such she feels she was neglected. I feel awful about her feeling this way and miss her very much, she was never intentionally neglected but with 4 children with complicated needs she was the "easy" child. My ex husband and I definitely weren't the best parents to her, we missed parents evening, sports games etc. This was never because of a lack of love but rather being overstretched by the needs of our other children. Since the day DD left for uni, I haven't heard from her. She talks to her dad but also hasn't seen him in that time (he does insist on sending her money though) and she still talks to her siblings. She struggled with her mental health somewhat as a teen but we did go out of our way to provide her with as much support as we could, especially as some awful things external to family life happened. I was also told recently that she received a formal ADHD diagnosis, but this was never something anyone was concerned about when she was a child.
Anyway, DD has always been a very smart, responsible girl, she was head girl, straight As, she went to St Andrews and I know she graduated in the summer with a first class honours, and is now in London doing her masters.

Recently my eldest DS went to visit her, and he has come back feeling quite concerned, he said that she is drinking a lot, several week days after uni and on the weekends (out well into the early hours), she smokes weed (he said not like a "stoner" but socially), vapes, has used cocaine, seems to be just dating random men all the time. He also said she seems to be surviving on very little sleep, energy drinks and not enough food (she was anorexic as a teen).
I miss DD all the time, but I'm also feeling incredibly worried. I have tried to contact her to no avail, my ex husband says if he mentions anything about this to her she stops contacting him, and sends any money he has sent straight back. My DS doesn't know how to approach this and honestly neither do I.
So please mumsnet, what do I do?
AIBU to feel totally lost at dealing with this?

I’ve just had an ADHD diagnosis as an adult. It was my mum who suggested it to me, but only a couple of years ago. She didn’t neglect me, but so much less was known about ADHD 15+ years ago- Especially ADHD as it might typically present in girls. I don’t think it’s fair at all to blame OP for missing it,

That’s a bit of a leap. My DD was diagnosed at 18. Nobody who knew my.DD could believe it. The psychiatrist said many girls are not diagnosed until much later because they present very differently to boys and they mask heavily.

We all have duties to others, especially to those who gave us life, birthed us, cared for us, raised us , gave us our life’s privilege

Absolute twaddle. Because it shouldn't be seen as a duty, it should come from looking after those that loved and respected us when they brought us up.

Anyone that says 'but they are your parents', 'you have a duty to', is just supporting abuse of children.

I know several people that are going to end up doing the "filial duty" and they have all been beaten down until they have no concept of self or of anything other then looking after their parents, that is a form a abuse.

I know many others that consider looking after their parents a joy, and even in the toughest moments of dementia, Alzheimers and other debilitating illnesses they all had happy memories to look back on, and none of those parents would have or did object to going into homes or assisted living because they wanted what was best for their children.

Oh what bollocks.
recognising our social obligations and responsibilities to others is not a form of abuse. 🙄 it’s a basic pro social human value.
And , no, looking after someone with Alzheimer’s or dementia is not typically a “joy”. It’s incredibly hard and often painful . But people do it out of both duty and love. (But also if you can’t manage, that’s ok too and thankfully their are care homes too).

*there are, not their!

If you read it properly I said in the toughest moments.

And anyone that uses term like "filial duty" is just using it as a whip to beat someone into doing something,

recognising our social obligations and responsibilities to others is not a form of abuse

If you have to use this to force someone in to doing something then you are coercing them, hence abuse,

it’s a basic pro social human value.

"A basic pro social human value" would be to bring up your children right so that you don't have to coerce them in to looking after you into old age.

The truth is that if you had kids so that they could look after you into old age, then you had then for the wrong reasons.

Imagine thinking that teaching a young person about responsibility is a form of coercion and abuse. Like I said- our culture is rotten.

Imagine teaching a young person that you have the rights to their life and will be able to control them for a significant part of it just because you gave birth to them, no matter how poorly you treat them.

nobody on this thread thinks / suggested anything like this.

What’s ’our’ culture?

’Responsibility’ does not extend to maintaining relationships you do not wish to be part of, especially when the other party is someone that has caused you pain (whether intentionally or not), and continuing that relationship is something you would cause you further distress.

Personally I am grateful to live in a society that allows individuals the freedom to make their own choices regarding interpersonal relationships, rather than one that issues diktats. Societies that place importance on familial duty tend to be ones that place the significant burden of that on women, incidentally, very much reinforcing strict gender roles. I suppose that may be attractive if you are naturally someone that conforms to stereotype.

If the pain was unintentional, as OP has suggested, and if OP is genuinely sorry for how her DD has been affected then there is every hope that this family will be reunited.
I can understand how angry DD must be that she had to more or less fend for herself as a child. However, from the OP’s pov it is extremely difficult when children don’t express how they are feeling and their grades aren’t suffering. Nobody picks up on their struggles until it is too late. Life has been incredibly unfair to both of them.

I hate the term but filial duty should be given freely from a place of love. If the parents have not created that starting point, that home filled with love, then it’s not a failing of the DC to not enact said duty.

I agree @SockFluffInTheBath But I do think it is worth reminding people that it is a lot easier to fill a home with happiness and love when the odds are not stacked against you, as in OP’s case.

What’s ’our’ culture?

contemporary British culture.

very much reinforcing strict gender roles. I suppose that may be attractive if you are naturally someone that conforms to stereotype.

I certainly am not someone who conforms to strict gender roles, lol.
But as much as there are positive / liberating aspects to individualism , there are profound negatives as well. As always there is a balance to be struck. Absolutely the individual should be empowered to protect themselves from coercion and abuse; we also need to maintain some sense of social responsibility and obligation towards others- particularly those who make huge sacrifices for us.

I agree, but… sure, so a daughter should love her mum, but maybe sometimes the odds are stacked against this.

The OPDD’s feelings are valid. No buts.

Except that it the life that you are proposing some of the children should live because of "filial duty". that you think should be so prevalent because of those who make huge sacrifices for us.

Its called parenting and you signed up for it when you decided to have your children.
And it parents that claim to have made "huge sacrifices" and doing the minimum that the stately homes thread was born.

Except that it the life that you are proposing some of the children should live because of "filial duty"

No it’s not.
yes most parents make huge sacrifices for their children’s

And it parents that claim to have made "huge sacrifices" and doing the minimum that the stately homes thread was born

no idea what this means.

Annyyyway.

again those huge sacrifices are calling parenting, Interesting how you missed that bit out.

Yes you clearly don't understand the reference otherwise you wouldn't support "filial duty"

again those huge sacrifices are calling parenting

and?

And what?

Ah, that wouldn’t be mine then. Being from a more communal culture is precisely why I value individualism, and consider the positives to far outweigh the negatives. I don’t have to like the choices someone makes in their personal lives in order to respect their right to make them. I don’t get to decide what others should or shouldn’t do, and nor should I. It’s up to the individual to decide where that balance is to be found, and what exactly they consider their social responsibilities and obligations to be.

A parent chooses to assume the responsibilities associated with parenting, and it isn’t something that can be held over the head of a child as a way to keep them in a relationship they have no wish to be part of.

What cultures in the world don't include honouring the family as one of its key tenets? On the contrary, other countries seem to be much more family focused than the UK. Here the idea that eg a child would not marry, leave home in order to look after family members has all but disappeared. Now you seem to be saying that even keeping in touch occasionally is too much to ask.

I said I came from a culture that is more communal, not less. I don’t look at it as superior to one that places greater value on individual freedoms.

For this girl, who wants no relationship with her mother? Well, OP has asked, and the answer is ‘no’.

What I am saying that I respect the right of individuals to make those decisions for themselves. Keeping in touch with someone when you have, at the very least, a generally good relationship with them is very different to keeping in touch with someone you don’t have a good relationship with, and have no desire to continue that relationship.

She's only 22 and pursued her own diagnosis since she's been no contact with her mother. So she is taking care of her health care needs better than her parents did.

I don't have a good relationship with my sister in law but we are polite. We both see the bigger picture and aren't behaving like brats. Grown adults don't need to stop speaking to other people. They set boundaries sure, but going no contact is extreme and has big ramifications for the rest of the family, family gatherings, weddings, Xmas etc.