Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

I told mum once to piss off she smacked me round my face. I deserved it.

It's worrying that you think this.

So the answer is to whack them?

Why?

Should a husband be allowed to whack his wife if he thinks she's not doing as she's told?

If we can see what studies you're referencing then there's probably an explanation within that somewhere.

Can you link what statistics you're looking at?

@Zod666 gentle parenting does not create children who want to kill other children. I have always thought James Bulger killers were children who were abused themselves and needed help. But what they got was public slaying and demonising.

Children need firm rules and boundaries. They don't need abuse and violence. Empathy is the key word.

Not read full thread but I work in a school. The most disruptive and difficult children are, on the whole, from families where there is either "don't give a shit" parenting (parents too caught up in their own drama and issues to parent properly) or "anything for an easy life" parenting, where the child is never told no. These parents are definitely not "gentle parenting" as they are just struggling on, potentially not having had good parental role models themselves.
The difficult ones are mostly not MC kids whose parents actually care about their parenting and might be trying "gentle parenting".

My DS hit me when he was 8 and was tricky, they all go through phases at times, but v well behaved at school.

Former teacher and now social worker here.

1. you don’t know what gentle parenting is.
2. I can tell you right now those students that kick off in class, that are violent, disrespectful and so forth are not ‘victims’ of gentle parenting. Permissive parenting maybe.. but there’s stuff going on there you don’t understand or are experiencing.

Very good. Especially strong leadership.

Also, though there is a distaste for a quick slap these days, actual angry ranting and shouting and obsessive moralising and shaming children can be worse in my opinion.

I would challenge your assumption that there is always clear water between a controlled smack and an out of control abuse situation. My mum used to smack us in anger. It was not calm or controlled and as i got older and taller, she escalated to slapping my face hard enough to make my eyes smart. Then one day she went after my kid brother with his cricket bat.

Where would you draw the line here OP? I know where I do: I have never hit any of my children. Since people seem to be arguing age is relevant, my kids range from 14-4.

But it did because you think it’s okay to smack children.

All it teaches them is it’s okay to lash out when you’re angry/lose your temper,

So your brother set fire to the carpet, got smacked, and then proceeded to set fire to the shed? And this stellar parenting resulted in the type of children who commit arson and tell their parents to piss off?

There’s a whole world between smacking and gentle parting though. I don’t consider myself a gentle parent. I use the naughty step, I have no time for “let’s name your feelings…” nonsense when my 4 year old is having a strop about putting shoes on and we all need to get out the door. I tell her she has 30 seconds to get her shoes on or there will be xyz consequences and I mean it and she knows I mean it so she does it. However I’ve never raised a hand and I never shout (obviously I’ve lost it on occasion like most parents!) so far at least my 4 year old is a lovely well behaved child, my 2 year old needs a bit of work right enough! Perhaps my parenting will need to change with him… we’ll see. I suppose my feeling is you can be strict and have boundaries without hitting!

Yes @Pigwodgeon absolutely, its the feral, very disadvantaged, sometimes abused, sometimes neglected, some who are just above the threshold for SS intervention. Their parents were never reading about "gentle parenting".

People don't understand what gentle parenting is. Its not letting your child run amok and do whatever they want. Its actually a LOT of very hard work.
I didn't gentle parent I was an 80s parent, no such thing then but my much younger sibling does. She is a SAHM and on the go with her child all day long playing, distracting, teaching.
She is a trained teacher. Her child is way above his age group and his behaviour is impeccable, he's potty trained at two.
But Dsis is knackered.

Gentle parenting has got a bad name - literally, it's name does not accurately describe what it is. It gives a false impression of soft, ineffectual, permissive parenting. And I think there are plenty of parents out there confusing the two.

I agree with a pp. Actual gentle parenting is generally effective when done well. But there is also a place for a more authoritarian approach at times.

Ive had 4 children and nothing has made me want to assault them between the ages of 5 and 8 (or any other age tbh and my eldest is 21 next month, youngest just turned 10).

Do you think that smacking is the only thing that has changed in society?

Have you any stats on whether kids who have been smacked are less violent than kids who haven't?
Smacking is legal in England and the US and violence is worsening in both countries. Why do you think this is?

I agree with you. I’m a child from the 70s and we grew up with a strict dad and mum, we got a smacked ass if we misbehaved. Also schools were much stricter you didn’t dare talk back to the teacher or you got the cane, so that was a deterrent for most kids at that time not to misbehave. You’ve only got to look at the state of the Education system now, teachers leaving with stress and anxiety, it’s an absolute joke the way this country has gone and not for the better. 🇬🇧

Violence is not the answer. As PP’s have repeatedly said, it’s not gentle parenting that’s the issue, it’s the failure to uphold boundaries and excessive screen time.

I personally feel it’s partly down to the enormous pressure placed on parents these days where both work full time and boundaries aren’t enforced because parents are exhausted and trying to juggle a million things at once and just don’t have the energy for a battle over the iPad or a healthy dinner. I went back to work full time briefly for around 3 months and impacted the whole family negatively. Everyone was rushed, the house constantly looked like a bomb hit it, healthy eating went largely out the window and the iPad was used daily to be able to keep on top of the never ending housework. Patience with my children was thin after a long day and I far more easily gave in to demands.

Fair play to those parents who work full time and run a tight ship at home. No idea how you do it.

My kids are young adults now. We didn't smack them. It was a hard and fast rule. I was smacked by my father as a child. I cannot remember what for. But I can remember the fear, and pleading with him not to hit me. I can remember running away and trying to shut myself in my room to prevent it. I refused to inflict that on my own children. If it's not acceptable for an adult to hit another adult, then it is not acceptable to hit a child, where the balance of power is massively skewed in favour of the adult. I don't understand any adult that would think this is okay.

I had very clear rules for my children about what was and wasn't acceptable, so they knew where they stood, and how they were supposed to behave. No is a complete sentence, and I didn't spend forever on explanations they couldn't understand or begging them to be nice. This is the rule, you follow it because I am the parent and I say so, and there is a clear consequence if you don't.
I used time out as punishment, 1 minute for each year of age. By the time they were 9/10 it wasn't necessary any more. Both confident young people who know how to do as they're told. I wasn't trying to be their friend, I want them to be independent adults who can contribute to society.

The options aren't doing nothing or whacking them when they misbehave.

FWIW a big part of the problem with schools at the moment is that the places that were set up to deal with the children who were just too disruptive in a normal classroom, or who needed special support, have been closed because there isn't funding for them. So schools are now effectively babysitting a lot of children who should be in specialist units. It's inevitable that behaviour has gone downhill as a result.

OP I totally agree, so many parents seem to have forgotten they are their child’s protector, not their friend.

How do you plan to reach a child not to hit by hitting them?
How do you teach them to regulate their emotions by not regulating your emotions?
How do you teach them to look after themselves without giving autonomy over themselves?
What you described isn't gentle parenting anyway, but if you read and learn what it actually is (it isn't permissive), it's respectful, and is common sense really. Expect your kids to act in an age appropriate way (e.g. young kids are impulsive, teenagers are risk takers), i.e. manage your expectations and be kind and respectful to them - it's really simple. I remember describing gentle parenting to a colleague who had just had a baby, and he looked at me like I was mad - as in, why wouldn't you be kind and respectful to your kid? Why wouldn't you listen to them, understand and want to help them? Arbitrary punishments, threats etc. don't really teach what you are trying to teach them and it can really damage your relationship with them, it's not worth it.

I found this recently and find it really interesting if you want to think about how the environmental you're raising your kids in impacts them...

I accept this. I totally agree that healthy discipline can involve smacking and always has. There's many cultures all over the world that do just this and their children also continue to grow into happy well rounded adults.
Animals also discipline their young; dogs, wild cats etc and we can learn a lot from the benefits of quick short on the spot reminders that other species use.

I kind of hoped that as humans we had grown out of animal behaviour

Please ignore the typos, I do know and teach children how to use apostrophes correctly 😂. Putting it down to predictive text on my phone.

One of the Bulger killers was abused, the other I think may have been sociopathic. Neither are linked to discipline.