Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

There is absolutely no need to smack. There is a vast spectrum of discipline from smacking to permissive parenting (which is what most people are thinking of when they talk about gentle parenting). Children need boundaries and to hear the word no. They need to be parented to understand they are not the centre of the universe, to consider others and to be kind and thoughtful. That does not, ever, mean smacking.

I personally think a lot of people are just not strict enough day to day. I see so much low-level bad behaviour from children of friends - allowing them to make noise in cafes, stand on chairs, run around town and get in peoples' way. My parents were strict (I'm 43) but never smacked me, but I was very much expected to be quiet and behave myself, and I expect the same of my child now.

I remember when I was smacked as a kid and it didn't stop any of the behaviours I was being smacked for but it did make me feel really fucking angry and like I wanted to fight back and be violent to the parent who was hitting/smacking me because that's a normal reaction when being hit isn't it?

I'm a parent and there have been times when I could have slapped one of my kids quite easily out of pure anger because anyone with kids knows that they do push you to your absolute limit but I always remember the feeling of just wanting to lash back out at whoever was hitting me.

Being hit as a child didn't cause me any harm in the long run though and I would say it has actually made me a better parent because it's taught me that it's a really bad way to communicate and it doesn't make your children respect you or behave.

To say "I was hit and it didn't do me any harm" then to go on and hit your own kids shows that it did in fact harm you if you think it's acceptable to do that to your own kids.

Gentle parenting does not mean not disciplining your children.

If you feel the need to smack or use any type of physical punishment then there is something very wrong with you. The thought of someone smacking their child makes me feel sick.

This. I didn't even realise it had a label but this is how I raised my kids and they turned out to be good people. I don't think discipline is what children need so much as to be treated as human beings with feelings. Teach them by example and model good behaviour and they will grow and develop respect. It's the respect that makes the difference, it punishments or violence.

Tbh OP it doesn't seem like you have a clue what gentle parenting actually is and you seem to have a misguided (at best) view about the impact of smacking on a child.

In gentle parenting the fundamental principle is that you have to have the connection before you can enforce correction. Somebody who is truly following a gentle parenting method will focus on maintaining that connection with their child. It is putting that connection to the forefront of your mind and prioritising this over punishment/control. What it isn't is meekly saying 'oh it's best not to do that darling' whilst your little terror divebombs your newborn/smashes the front window with a baseball bat. There definitely can and should be consequences but they should be logical and child-centred rather than abitrary/abusive. None of what you described is gentle parenting tbh. The truth is as well that the 2 aren't mutually exclusive. Not excusing any violence against children but a child who has loving and engaged parents who have taken the time to build good foundations but taps their kid on the hand every so often because they've run out into the middle of a road for example is likely to be far less traumatised than a child with an explosive parent who doesn't give them quality time, is inconsistent and randomly goes apeshit at them because they aren't in control of their emotions.

I think the challenge with today's parenting is actually less about how corporal we are with consequences and more about our inability to truly engage with our children tbh. Some of this is because we lead busier lives and parents tend to have to return to work earlier. Some of it is that our society seems to have forgotten the importance and normality of childhood experiences

Better gentle parenting than lazy parenting that relies on abuse.
Kids all play up to some extent. Teaching your kids other people matter is more about community than isolating or restricting friendships, for example. If they think other people don't matter it is usually because they have been made to feel they don't matter, by the parents whacking them or treating them like dog muck, certainly not the gentle parents.

Your parenting sounds similar to mine. This is what I wondered further up. It would have been better to have called it somethimg else and not gentle, which seems to get wildly misinterpreted. I think my parenting would have likely been in the gentle category (no smacking, no ‘punishments’ as such (no naughty step etc). I would talk with (not at) my children once the dust had settled about whatever the situation was.

It should be renamed really, I would like to think I did ‘intelligent’ parenting.

Mine are 31, 26 and 21 and I never changed my mind. I was strict with mine and they’ve grown up beautifully but I never raised my hand to them. I did raise my voice on occasions though!

So many little shits about. Just some consistent parenting is best

Gentle parenting is the best method of parenting when done properly and should include discipline and boundaries. But whatever parenting style you choose there's never a good reason to hit or humiliate a child (or adult for that matter)

The reasons why families are struggling are way more complex than 'you should just hit your kids'

Gentle parenting which involves treating the child like a person with vaild thoughts, feelings and emotions. Is often misunderstood for letting children get away with errant behaviour it's not about ignoring your child or having no consequences for actions.

One of the reasons families are struggling more is the lack of community nowadays. A lot of previous generations would get help from parents, neighbours, local community members. That's dried up, grandparents are working much longer, services are spread thin and are borough wide rather than village.

In days gone it was much more common to have one income families now with two parents working full time trying to parent in the few remaining hours in the day when tired and stressed is hard. Childcare facilities are doing a lot of the child rearing and it's no subs.

It's common knowledge that screens are having a massive impact on children and their behaviour. It's hard to know how to navigate that when they are such an integral part of society now.

Schools are fuller than ever and on the receiving end of less staff and budget cuts. So many Sen kids where the mainstream classroom is not necessarily the best environment for them but there's no where else for them to go.

I have a son who I gentle parenting. He has additional needs and I found this approach worked better. My older dc who are NT I probably parented something between gentle and authoritative. my son has a consistent routine , boundaries around screen time and behaviour. I manage his environment and aim not to give him more than he can manage in terms of my expectations of him. It works well for him

Nobody has answered my question yet.

Why are kids so much more violent now event though theyre much less likely to have been smacked themselves?

Precisely this.

if truly “nothing works” with your friends child I hazard a guess she has not been consistent with boundaries or discipline, or he has additional needs that can’t be met in this way.

Gentle parenting is not permissive parenting.

I have witnessed a child in a park deliberately throw mud at their parents. Shouting ensued, and no follow up.

If/when my child does that, I would swiftly leave the park and calmly explain why that was wrong - let them tell me why they threw the mud, discuss, and move on.

Shouting and whacking is not effective.

let them tell me why they threw the mud, discuss

Please tell us how this conversation would go?

wait until they are 5-8 and your mind will change

Are you ok?

I grew up next to a family who were well known for getting into trouble. Their dad thought nothing of taking a belt to them. One of them used to have massive paddy’s smash the house up hit his siblings and mum. Police would be out all the time. One time police went to get something back one had taken off a child and the dad took a belt to him in front of the police.

One has been in prison one was charged for domestic violence against his wife. One took their own life by the lad who had the big paddy’s he’s actually turned out ok. He’s married with kids.

It clearly did affect you. It taught you the way to control children as an adult is to hit them. What a rubbish lesson.

why the fuck would you want your children to fear you!? Respect yes, fear?? Only a bad parent needs their child to be scared in order for them to behave well.

I for one am proud that my children make good decisions because they want to, treat me with respect because the choose to and genuinely do respect me. Gentle parenting, when done right, is the correct way to raise a person. Children deserve respect too, OP.

Absolutely agree.
My children are all adults now and were never smacked, nor did I use the "naughty step" type techniques which were popular when they were little. I'm not going to claim I have never shouted at them but it was rare for either me or DH to raise our voices to them, or indeed each other. But we were far from permissive and had pretty firm boundaries.
It was the same for me when I was a child. I was born in the 60s as the youngest child of parents born in the 20s so my parents were substantially older than those of most of my friends and definitely of the era when corporal punishment was the norm. But anyone being smacked in our house was such a rare event that my siblings and I have very vivid memories of the few occasions it happened. It's perfectly possible to raise well behaved children without physical violence or continually yelling at them.
I do think there are flaws in the gentle parenting ethos that I'm seeing used at times though. I see quite a lot of parents clearly trying to do the right thing but over explaining and using language and concepts that are way too complex for their child to understand and expecting young children to take decisions that are above their level of maturity. Explaining things to children is a good thing but you need to use age appropriate language and make boundaries clear - not everything can be a negotiation.

Why does lack of smacking have to be the reason for it. Why is a lack of violence the reason for increased violence?

THIS.

Who else can you smack in your life without the police being involved?
Please read this carefully:
PEOPLE DO IT BECAUSE THEY CAN, NOT BECAUSE IT WORKS

The examples you give don't contradict each other and work together quite well.

The original use of the term was by Sarah Ockwell-Smith, and she defines a very structured method of gentle parenting. It involves all of the above, talking about and validating feelings, allowing for natural consequences, giving logical consequences when natural ones fail, empowering your child to make choices, and being proactive to prevent issues from arising. She's very clear that it's a form of AUTHORITATIVE parenting, not permissive.

I'm not sure that all of it is always the best thing. Most gentle parents would say, for example, that you must never tell your child they have made you sad/angry because children aren't responsible for adult's emotions. I think it's important that my child knows her behaviour impacts on other people's feelings.

For most people, the SOS method is extremely labour intensive and requires you, as the parent, to never express your emotions in order to be a strong leader and role-model calmness with your child at all times. It doesn't allow for situations when you are in a rush or have priorities other than working through the issues that your child is having with their emotions. The problem is many parents can't because they are humans, so they just sort of give up and leave their child to run riot. They then use social media to justify their behaviour and you have groups springing up telling people that you should never impose any kind of boundaries or demands on children. It's a free pass for parents who feel out of their depth with discipline, and this gives gentle parenting a bad name.

I'd say I'm a gentle-ish parent. I would never, ever smack, I avoid shouting, my default in most situation is to consider my child's opinion and emotions and allow her to make choices. I do not validate and embrace every emotion she has or debate with her about every instruction I give. Sometimes the answer is no and I don't want to elaborate.

sarahockwell-smith.com/tag/what-is-gentle-parenting/

There’s a massive difference between gentle parenting and smacking your kids. I do t smack my children but I set clear boundaries and give them an earful when they cross the line.

My brother's in the late 70s purposely caught mums shed alight they got smacked. For it as fire brigade had to come out. My brother at 9 caught my mum's bedroom carpet alight he got smacked for it. Both ended up military men and served our country. I told mum once to piss off she smacked me round my face. I deserved it.