Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

It is not hitting and punishing that makes a good parent. It is having clear boundaries about what is acceptable behaviour, it is about expecting and demonstrating polite behaviour, it is about showing how you can respect other peoples boundaries and differences while maintaining your own, it is about being the adult in the relationship, not the “friend”, it is about both having and modelling values.

A protector who has to hit their ward is a shit protector.

I don't know, because I'm not a sociologist. But it's certainly not because they're not being smacked.

"Numerous research studies have concluded that a complex interaction or combination of factors leads to an increased risk of violent behavior in children and adolescents. These factors include:

• Previous aggressive or violent behavior
• Being the victim of physical abuse and/or sexual abuse
• Exposure to violence in the home and/or community
• Being the victim of bullying
• Genetic (family heredity) factors
• Exposure to violence in media (TV, movies, etc.)
• Use of drugs and/or alcohol
• Presence of firearms in home
• Combination of stressful family socioeconomic factors (poverty, severe deprivation, marital breakup, single parenting, unemployment, loss of support from extended family)
• Brain damage from head injury"

Nothing about "they don't get clipped round the back of the head when they're cheeky".

In my own personal experience (as an ex-teacher), the children who were most likely to be violent in school were the ones exposed to violence in the home.

(Study source: https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/FFF-Guide/Understanding-Violent-Behavior-In-Children-and-Adolescents-055.aspx)

Mine is 11 and I have never used violence. I am NOT a permissive parent, they drive me batshit with their pandering to their child’s every whim. What I am, is a gentle parent who enforces good boundaries, and mine is constantly praised for their good manners and behaviour.

Unlike some posters here, I am very willing to admit that there are MANY times I’d love to hit an adult and fewer but still some times I think a child (usually mine) deserves a spanking. I don’t do it. I know it’s wrong. But my partner and I were at the end of our rope with our eldest and sat down and really really discussed it - he has a lot of traits we have on both sides and we are the “lucky” ones who are figuring out this combination without hitting.

We spent an absolute fortune and found out that our little boy is at least 2 years behind on social and emotional development, likely has PDA, ADHD and autism. That his central nervous system and core muscles are underdeveloped and dysregulating him.

He needed about 6 months of OT and now does social skill classes at the same clinic. We know the tools at home and extracurriculars to keep him level enough to learn and apply social skills and emotional regulation. I expect the same on that level from him and his little brother.

2 years later my kid who I was terrified would be put of control violent only hits about once a week and it is getting better and better all the time. Some days his little brother is the one I need to be on top of and it thrills me seeing them grow.

So no. Don’t resort to corporal punishment. Figure it out.

What do you do when smacking them doesn't work either, and let's take off the rose tinted specs, genx were every bit as unruly as today's kids. Move to the belt?

Jesus fucking Christ, we are really still ‘smacking’ kids? Completely unacceptable.

children learn boundaries and respect but been shown boundaries and respect. Please research the difference between passive/permissive parenting and gentle parenting - here’s just one link to consider but there’s lots out there: https://slumberkins.com/blogs/slumberkins-blog/gentle-parenting-vs-permissive-parenting-whats-the-difference?srsltid=AfmBOoos_rN_TT1LoJf-FthWCTQwv1f4N1gMCduXAwqUVlpv8uhdO400

I have never even thought about smacking my children. But what I have done is maintained boundaries, shown them respect, listened and tried to understand and explain their feelings, given agency where appropriate. What I haven’t done is given them screens, let them access things that aren’t age appropriate (social media, YouTube etc). I suspect this is where the behavioural issues are arising from.

I well behaved, happy, thoughtful children and I’ve always been a ‘gentle parent’ - but often with more boundaries than their peers.

I really love your definitions, I think they work well. However, how does gentle parenting deal with a child who breaks things which belong to others, as there's no natural consequence for them?

Fairly certain that no amount of smacking/beating is going to prevent children from making mistakes.
ND child … definitely no amount of beating will smack the diagnosis out of child.

Not according to virtually every teacher and early years worker.

Are you suggesting that just because something is legal it is moral? I would remind you that many things considered criminal today were once legal.

It won't be for very much longer thankfully. So people like you can stop resorting to it as the solution for every problem.

People that report to hitting their children are just rubbish parents. They also tend to be quite thick, so there’s no point in even trying to reason with them.

I would also question whether or not children are more violent now. There have always been violent children. The Bulger case is decades ago. Before that there was Mary Bell (and Mary was hideously abused by her mother, who was involved in prostitution, and gave Mary to her punters to use as they saw fit. Utterly horrendous). We are certainly dealing with these children differently, I think. It's very difficult to get them out of a mainstream school, because it's an expensive process and there often isn't anywhere for them to go.

There are more cases on the news because how news is reported has changed. And I also think, as other posters have mentioned, that too many children are being parented by their phone. A child with an interest in violence, that they may not even be consciously aware of, will be groomed by social media algorithms that show them increasingly violent content because that's what keeps the child watching, and that impacts their behaviour. We used to know this. Video nasties were banned for a reason. Now any eight year old with a phone can sit in their bedroom unsupervised and watch them, as their parent tells themselves the child is safe because they are in their room.

I tried hard not to snack my two and never snacked DS2 at all, and DS1 only once from memory - 20 years ago.

But I agree that ‘smacking is always traumatising’ is utter nonsense. Every single family I knew as a kid in the 70s smacked their DC. The vast majority of us are not traumatised!

I'm old. Of my friends from school that I was able to see their homelife, the nicest and most well adjusted ones are the ones where there was proper discipline in the home and the parents were respected as parents not as a friend.

One bunch of four sibs ( 2M and 2F) in particular had a very strict father. He was far more severe than mine and I was a bit scared of him but in fact they adored him even though he didn't allow even an inch of bend which looked paradoxical from the outside.

Once they were all adults he sort of drew a sigh of relief and said to them that he was shit scared of being a father let alone of four kids so he just copied what his father had done. They all loved him for it.

Their mother backed him all the way. Total teamwork and all the kids are really funny, bright and successful with a pragmatic and wry take on life.

Why do people post their own experience and assume that it’s true for the rest of the population?

On both classes . Middle and lower .
middle class put from 6am to 6pm so there is none of what you listed then the Governmet expects single parents (usually mums ) to have kids in childcare form age 2. None of what you
mention will be recieved on that situation either .

Two parents working or one single parent working is causing this issue . Where is the safety for them .

So you think your friend should teach her son that hitting her is wrong….. by hitting him…..?

Oh.

Another thread bashing gentle parenting that actually knows fuck all about gentle parenting.

I’ve got 15 yr old twins. Both autistic. DD also has ADHD. They were two months premature and tiny.

In no way were they “easy” babies.

I have always followed gentle parenting. Not permissive parenting. They understand I have expectations around mutual respect and I have clear boundaries.

My DC are well-behaved, kind, and respectful. They have never raised their voice at me - because I don’t raise my voice at them.

My DC know I don’t fuck around.

Gentle parenting requires clear boundaries, natural consequences, and an investment of time and effort. It absolutely does work - but only if you understand the difference between permissive and gentle parenting, and you can stick to it.

Yes that is over the top. I was a bit of a bully as a kid and stepped on a ladybird once just because I was angry at life. My home life was abusive, and I suffered sexual abuse outside the home. I was a bit of a brat.

My father, rightly, stamped on my bare foot as a punishment so I would know what it was like to feel pain and fear. This was not unreasonable although of course I felt oh so hard done by and cried out that it hurt. My father pointed out "that is what you did to the ladybird. "

I'm glad to say it worked. I hate the idea of any animal cruelty now. If I see an injured bumble bee I will try to rescue it

I don't assault my child. She is now 14 and well behaved. Any physical discipline is assault. If it is wrong to hit another adult then it is wrong to hit a kid - period.

Does it really matter if smacking is traumatising or not? That’s an extremely low bar. If someone hit me I would be afraid of them, and as an adult I would make the choice to never see them again… why on earth would you want your children to see you like that?! Smacking is probably the laziest consequence of all - just frightening someone (way smaller than you) in to submission?

talk to your fucking kids, don’t write them off as incapable of understanding and educate yourself enough to talk in a way they will listen.

I agree with you about alot of this. I myself was smacked as a child and though I'd never smack mine, I don't feel I'm traumatised by it. The problem nowadays is that as you described, parents apologies for even slightly raising their voices when their kids been a complete little shit and the parent has in their mind lost it and shouted/ spoke with a firm tone. I think if a child is misbehaving so bad then I really don't see the problem with a firm angry voice telling them no/ stop it. To apologise to the kid just makes them think that what they did wasn't so bad so they've got no incentive to not do it again. And I do believe that gentle and permissive parenting has played a huge part in why kids these days are entitled little shits who can't handle life when they're told no

My God. Of course you shouldn't hit children, the most vulnerable members of society. That this is even a thread is mind boggling.