Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

Gentle and permissive parenting are two completely different things, you can't use them interchangeably.

Gentle parenting is all about boundaries and learning to behave in society, with supports where appropriate, and taking responsibility for their actions.

I'm asking you if what they learn from being smacked - that is, that you can hit people if they don't behave how you want them to - is fine?

Children that are exposed to violence are more likely to become violent adults, like yourself. They are more likely to become domestic abusers as adults. Do you think that is the 'correct behavour'?

We got a smack when we needed it growing up. I'm 37 so not really old.

It taught us that people had limits and not everyone outside in the real world will be gentle and kind with you if you keep pissing them off and pushing boundaries, after being warned.
It did not scar me nor traumatise me.

Obviously this is only my experience and others do and will differ greatly!

I'm happy with how I was raised, how I turned out, and the fantastic relationship I have with my parents.

Totally agree OP, there would be much less violence in society if we hit children.

Children that are exposed to violence are more likely to become violent adults, like yourself. They are more likely to become domestic abusers as adults. Do you think that is the 'correct behavour'?

I suppose its how you see it. I never saw it as violence. I saw it as a consequence. We were never injured from a slap or actually hurt.

It never occurred to me as a child - or an adult, to think of it as violence.

I was unfortunately bullied a lot in school and abused by men in my 20s, that was violence to me.

Exactly. I had one child who was very difficult and one who was easy. Children are born with very different personalities. The child raising books tell you that children want to please their parents, this was definitely not the case with one of my children, he got pleasure from winding me up. I would like to say he improved as he got older but he didn't and still causes me a lot of grief. I don't think it was down to me, there are other children like this in my husband's family.

I grew up in a rough estate and the kids who got the beat at home nearly invariably were absolutely wild outside. Their parents would've called it "discipline" or "smacking" btw, i call it beating because what else can you call it when someone two or three times the height and weight of the other person hits them? Violence breeds violence. And if you need to beat your kids to get them to behave you're a shit parent.

What’s that got to do with gentle parenting?

The op both doesn't understand what gentle parenting is and hasn't read any of the huge amount of well-researched evidence on how violence negatively impacts children.

I don't think there's any point in arguing with someone in that position.

Violence yes, but a smack is not violent. It is gentle chastisement. This gentle parenting started in the US and they are not a great advertisement for it.

I haven't RTFT but I'm getting really sick of this hoary old cliche about how "gentle parenting" is responsible for all the ills in the world. It's a non argument blown up into an excuse for people who feel inferior to have a rant about people who give this some thought.

Partly for all the good reasons people have explained upthread: "gentle parenting" is used inaccurately to mean permissive and lax parenting, different children respond differently, scaring and threatening children doesn't achieve anything other than to create fear, distrust and resentment.

But above all else because there's a really nasty, vindictive edge in a lot of these comments which reeks of people who for years have been sitting on the urge to hit their kids now feeling the unrestrained joy of letting them have it.

It's the parenting equivalent of the Trump doctrine: I finally feel able to air my brutal and ill educated views on how shouting at and bullying my children will set the world to rights.

For the record I don't consider myself a "gentle parent" just a pragmatic parent who exercises compassion with boundaries.

Haven’t RTWT but re.OP’s example of her friends 8 yo. I believe children should know how to behave by 5. By 8, too late or a hell of a little of behaviour to attempt to undo.

Edited to add that you don’t need to physically discipline (smack) a child to show them where the boundaries between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour is.

I'm an adult and if I got a 'gentle chastisement' like that I'd, quite rightly, report it as a physical assault. I'm horrified by comments like this.

I'm an adult and if I got a 'gentle chastisement' like that I'd, quite rightly, report it as a physical assault. I'm horrified by comments like this

Agree with this.

This is self justifying nonsense.

For physical chastisement to be a deterrent or a corrective of behaviour, it has to be a negative experience.

By definition it must be either physically or emotionally unpleasant or both.

That means it either physically hurts a child. Or makes them feel excluded and shamed. Or makes them feel fear. Or all three. You can’t have it both ways - claiming simultaneously that smacking is an important means of changing a child’s behaviour but also minimising the effect as just a ‘gentle’ smack.

As do I. Can someone possibly explain how hitting another (smaller) person meets the definition of 'gentle?'

I cannot post an image due to recent events. But hopefully this will work.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK568743/

Four styles overall, broadly

Most of us will be authoritative, gentle, etc

Some remain authoritarian

Then the other two, permissive and uninvolved. Permissive becoming an issue within society as a whole. Not the absolute love and adoration, but the lack of social norms

My children are 27 and 18 and have never been smacked. Not even once.

It is hitting children. How is that not violent?

Hear, hear. I'll never get my head around why in some people's minds it's not OK to hit an adult and yet it is OK to hit a child.

Tbh I think the word 'smacking' itself is part of the problem, as having a different word for it fosters the notion that smacking is somehow not 'really' hitting. But it is. Obviously there are varying degrees, but it's still hitting.

I'm really really glad you're not my mum

You can absolutely discipline and teach a child right from wrong without hitting them. I think it should be banned, there's no need for it.
The children who murdered James Bulger weren't just born evil, it's really not that black and white. I remember reading years ago that Robert Thompson was being severely abused at home.. So I should imagine he was smacked a lot. I'm not going to make excuses for what he did but if he hadn't been left in that home would he have gone on to do what he did.

I’ll never understand people wanting to hit their child. In no other situation would it be acceptable. Imagine if your partner was behaving in a way you didn’t like so you hit them? People would be horrified. Also what you’re describing doesn’t sound like gentle parenting, more like permissive parenting. Gentle parenting still involves boundaries. I’d recommend the book “there’s no such thing as naughty” by Kate Silverton before you advocate everyone just walloping their kids rather than teaching them how to regulate their behaviours.

So what makes you think physical abuse will improve things?