Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

Those kids were not 'gentle parented'.

Gentle parenting is not pleading with your child. I have never once pleaded with my child to do anything. I've been clear where something was a choice versus not a choice. Putting on his shoes - not a choice. Putting on his coat - a choice (unless it's dangerously cold). Don't put on your coat and get cold - ok, that is a consequence of your choice.

Children who experience actual gentle parenting would not be shocked to receive a stern instruction to do something that is not a choice. Because part of gentle parenting is about guiding your child through what is a suggestion or an option, and what is non-negotiable.

Gentle parenting is what the majority of people who say the do gentle parenting do

Which is miles from what it was meant to be

Do you have children? Do you hit them? Why are you so desperate to encourage other people to hit their children? Bit weird.

Who is the you? The OP?

@Zod666 I think you misunderstand the idea of 'gentle parenting'
Which is to raise confident, independent and happy children through empathy, respect and understanding, and by setting healthy boundaries.
I never hit my children, and yet they knew the rules. So misbehave, even 5 minutes into a trip to Legoland they had one warning to behave - or we went home. I only went home once.

I suspect many parents today just give in to their children, and don't stick to their own boundaries. They also don't interact with their children - look about and parents are glued to their screens! Not talking to their children, showing them things or being interested in their children whatsoever, instead they let their children do whatever and rarely call them into line.. or just stick them in front of their own screen - which much of the time shows absolute rubbish!
That's the failure of today's parenting.

This is not gentle parenting, this is neglectful parenting.

Gentle parenting still has consequences for actions alongside explanations and communication. People say they're gentle parents but they're actually just neglectful.

I’ve gentle parented long before it had a name. My adult ds and my teen ds are lovely people, caring and sensitive while also being self aware and assertive. What you describe is not gentle parenting.

(a) I have a kid towards the end of that age bracket and never once have I even considered smacking her

(b) I would call myself a gentle but very firm parent and my kid is very well behaved both at school and at home

(c) Your friend's difficult 8 year old is not evidence

(d) If you want evidence as opposed to anecdotes, there are numerous studies (which you can 100% go and find yourself via Google) to the effect that corporal punishment does not improve behaviour

(e) Gentle parenting is not letting your kid do whatever they want without boundaries

Yes, as is the case with MN, people are mis-quoting you to make you sound bad.

Why was marital rape still legal in the UK until 1992?

I don’t think you really understand the difference between gentle parenting and completely ineffective parenting. Parenting effectively takes work. Ineffectually wringing your hands while Crispin terrorises people is not gentle parenting; it's ineffectual and lazy This, with bells on.

I was smacked as a child. And it didn’t do me any harm. But it was very much used as a punishment, which just made me try harder not to get caught. It’s shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted. I don’t smack, I don’t shout and I don’t negotiate. And I will never, ever give in to a tantrum. If they so much as sniff a sign of weakness or hesitation, they’ll push their luck forever more. There are boundaries set in stone and there are consequences. And that works over and over again.

I've raised 5 children to adulthood and I can tell you, you don't teach children anything by hitting them. In my experience, parents smack their children when they are angry, have lost their temper and feel at the end of their rope - that's not a calm and measured response.

Children do respond to calm consistent discipline and expectations. Will they be perfectly behaved all the time? No. They're still learning how to control their emotions and they will have times when they are overwhelmed. The best way to deal with it is through consequences and removal from the situation. Giving time out to calm down and then a calm explanation as to why the behaviour was unacceptable.

If you smack a 5 year old (for example) and they continue the behaviour, or laugh, or hit you back, what do you do then? Hit them harder? Smacking is the inadequate discipline that parents resort to when they are out of ideas.

No, I don't think we need to return to smacking. As a teacher, I would prefer parents to say No to their children, mean it and stick to that no.

Yes, we should smack children when they misbehave.

And my husband should be allowed to smack me if I don't do what he says.

And my boss should be allowed to smack me if I make a mistake at work.

And random strangers in the street should be allowed to smack me if I get in their way by accident.

After all, how else will I learn?

it isn't "luck" that I chose never to smack my children though! Are you trying to suggest that it is bad luck if you end up with a child that you have to smack or bawl out?

Otherwise, I'm not sure what you are taking from my post. I never said I didn't have to move things out of the way of small hands, I never said they weren't picky about food, I never said they didn't have accidents and need patching up. I do, however, have expectations of behaviour (for example, if you have been told not to touch something, I expect you not to touch it) and use tone of voice and actual words to indicate when a boundary has been crossed.

I've noticed this. I find if I'm very gentle and loving , acknowledging feelings etc , child will not listen. When I raise my voice and very firmly correct the behaviour, they listen. I certainly wouldn't smack a child , but they do listen when I'm firm

This is exactly why I no longer wish to participate in this discussion because as usual with MN it turns into a witch-hunt.

For the benefit of all responders, I do not have children, however I have known my friends son from being born and believe me she has read many articles/books on the subject of gentle parenting and up until school age it seemed to be working but since going to school her sons behaviour has become gradually worse and despite working with the school nothing seems to work.

It's painful for me to watch and like I said, I, as a Gen X and many others I know were disciplined by a smack to the legs/behind in the past and it has not done me an ounce of harm.

As I don't have kids I have obviously never smacked one and neither has my friend as she in her own words has removed herself from the situation before it has come to that but she has asked the question if it would work, perhaps out of desperation, as all other methods she has studied have failed.

thanks for all of your responses, as the dragons say "I'm out".....but finally, if my question/suggestion is so outlandish, how do you explain the results of the poll attached to this thread?

It made you think that violence was acceptable.

It's human (child) nature. At school when classes wouldn't settle and everyone chatting despite the teacher trying to settle them... a swift board rubber thrown at someone soon shut the whole class up and had everyone's attention and quiet.
It's how kids are.

Because your poll was disingenuous. The question was about “gentle” parenting, but the conversation has been all about smacking.

I am in favour of good discipline. Good discipline never requires violence.

If you don’t have children then quite frankly you don’t have a fucking clue what you’re talking about and should take your judgement and your inaccurate assumptions elsewhere.

I couldn’t tell you if someone was good at sheeting a sheep, I’m not a farmer I’ve never done it.

I couldn’t tell you if someone was good at plastering a wall. I’m not a plasterer I’ve never done it.

You don’t know if someone is good at parenting. You’re not a parent, you’ve never done it.

Enlighten us, then?

This is a bizarre premise. The OP essentially goes

'There are only two models for parenting: hitting children or being a complete pushover. I have one friend who has a son who is out of control, therefore everyone should smack their children.'

It's about as strong an argument as saying 'there are two models for criminal punishment: the death penalty and giving all criminals a teddy bear'. A local ruffian got given a teddy bear and still carried on burgling houses, so we should execute everyone who commits a crime.'

My kids are both primary age. Like the vast majority of people I know in real life, my parenting lies somewhere in between the absurd extremes set out in the OP (where 'gentle parenting' is used to mean 'lack of any boundaries or consequences'). It's never once crossed my mind that hitting them would solve anything, and nor do I know anyone who hits their kids. Most of the kids I know in real life are basically well-behaved, despite this lack of smacking.

yes!! I ‘gentle parent’ in terms of I don’t shout at or shame my children for simple mistakes, I respect their boundaries and treat them like human beings. Smacking your child’s legs/bottom is disgusting and there’s no place for it, but that doesn’t mean you can’t discipline your children

The worst-behaved children I know of have parents who believe in smacking and shouting. Go figure.