Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

What an arrogant statement. Of course it's not necessary to have children to be capable of forming valid opinions on how they should be brought up.

Maybe it’s not but someone who doesn’t have children advocating that people who do have children should start knocking them around a bit to get them to behave a bit better is a lot like me telling the farmer up the road that he should start battering his cows and maybe they’ll make more milk.

Ridiculous.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about op. Gentle parenting is not about just letting kids do what they like. You can still have boundaries and discipline. Smacking is always wrong. Always. and probably shortly to be make illegal.

The majority of young people are not out of control. The majority are well behaved, kind and hard working. Those that are out of control are probably not properly patented, including being smacked which shows a loss of control in the parent.

It might help if you start your threads on a different titular note than 'let's accept' your own particular viewpoint.

I suspect you'll have lost goodwill with that very first sentence. I know this was where you lost mine. It will be viewed as goading and as a directive to others, neither of which is ever likely to go down well.

I would go back to your friend and ask her to ponder this:

If she smacks her 8 year old to get him to behave, what will she use for discipline when he is 15 and much taller and stronger than he is?

Also, if she/you as grown adults cannot work out how to achieve an aim without resorting to physical violence, why would you expect an 8 year old to manage their behaviour better.

I'm a child of the 60/70s. The 'look' was the major thing that kept us in line. My Mum had it down to a fine art, right down to being able to hold 'the look' for several seconds stood completely still until we stopped (mostly) what ever unwanted behaviour we were doing. However, I can still recall a few occasions when we were slapped. They are very clear in my mind. It was horrible, I felt sad and hurt and a bit confused. I could say I'm not scarred by them but I guess the reality is that I recall them so very, very clearly and how I felt, maybe there is a small scar there.

This!

Was just about to post that people are being very binary - parenting is either abusive/smacking/authoritarian OR it is weak/passive/gentle/absent parenting. I have been around a lot of children and parents and very, very few people I’ve met fall in either of those camps.

Why stick with kids? Let's bring back stocks in public spaces, caning for offences like speeding and if that goes well we can go onto stoning for more serious offences.

Bring back being drawn and quartered I say.

It did affect you because you think it’s ok to hit children. Should your boss give you a slap when you make a mistake? A police officer whack a thief around the legs? It sounds ridiculous because we know that hitting adults is an offence and is not allowed. Why on Earth do people think it’s ok to hit children? The only thing a child learns from being hit is that it is ok to hit others.
In my opinion from working with children the main reason children behave badly is because they lack a connection with their parents and a lack of getting out and about in nature. Children spend too long in front of screens, as do parents, and not enough time going for a walk together, eating meals together and generally talking/playing together.

Agree. If all physical violence against children was illegal then it would be more clear cut for abusive parents who torture their children to death.

It’s children’s welfare that we should care about not the occasional ‘out of control’ child. I’d rather a child talked back a hundred times than children got legally and intentionally hurt by grown adults.

If I walked down the street and slapped someone I’d be rightly accused of assaulting them but if it’s your own child that’s ok.

You imply that there is no inbetween ground !

I didn't hit my children , however they did have consequences (deprived them of privileges /fun things)
I did NOT parent gently though (meal times there were 2 options - take it / leave it)
My children can approach me about any stuff ( and they do) however I am NOT their best mate , I am their mum !

Been there, done that. I have one very placid child who has been quite easy to parent, and one with ADHD who has presented challenges along the way- not sleeping or eating well, massive tantrums, difficult teenage behaviour… I didn’t smack either of them but did use the naughty step/reward systems etc. There is a middle ground between physical punishment and gentle parenting.

They are now really lovely older teens. Neither of them have ever been rude to me, sworn at me or slammed a door in anger. I haven’t been the perfect parent by any stretch of the imagination, but I’ve been good enough I think and no smacking needed.

EDIT- I meant to quote the OP’s post where they suggested those who haven’t smacked have had children who were easy to raise.

No. It won't. Funnily enough some people are better able to manage parenting without resorting to violence than others clearly are. Just as I can manage to have an argument with an isolent adult without hitting them, whereas some adults cannot do that.

Yes. ‘Gentle parenting’ involves engaging with your child. It’s a lack of engagement that leads to bad behaviour as most bad behaviour is seeking attention from the parent or caregiver. Giving children positive reinforcement encourages good behaviour.

It’s quicker and takes a lot less energy to smack a child. The ‘gentle parenting has failed’ brigade is clearly just as lazy as the permissive parents.

Do we have the same mother? 😁 I am the same as you down to the era. My mum did slap me and it really upset me a lot, my dad did only once but it was awful as his slap was a lot harder and I can look back at these and find them totally unacceptable (but I don’t hold it against them, it was the times).

It was the parenting of the time but frankly it was a bad aspect of parenting. My parents were good parents but I can look back and see how wrong the smacking was. I can remember some of them as if it happened yesterday, they were just bog standard smacks (but they stayed deep inside me emotionally).

People mix up gentle parenting with permissive parenting.

Gentle parenting done correctly is very good. However permissive parenting fails children, leads to behaviour challenges and is called gentle parenting by these inadequate parents

Yes.

Are you sure? 😊

This.

Ah, OP isn’t a parent, hence the lack of basis in reality. Those that don’t have kids always seem to know how to parent best.

What someone else said: the damage the old style discipline is apparent in that you consider violence towards another person, a child indeed, as a viable option. This has been researched extensively and the evidence is clear, it doesn’t work, it does great, long term harm.

But my friend is, so her views are irrelevant? lets keep up the MN tradition of selectively believing something that suits your own ends.......exactly the kind of narrow-mindedness I have come to expect.

as I have said in a previous post, the definition of gentle parenting is not in question here, my friend has followed this practice to the letter and still gets the same results, and there is no SEN or any other issues as that has been assessed. So given that she has done this the correct way and it hasn't worked, what now?

Swedish schools must be nightmare, considering smacking has been illegal there since 1979. I bet their prisons are overflowing too, with all these undisciplined children now being adults.

What? The opposite is true?

And for toddlers and those unable to understand the value of money or its relationship to the damaged item, @Snugglemonkey? Wouldn’t the child see that as “strict parenting” is rules and punishment unrelated to the transgression (eg trip to park is cancelled if toy gets broken)?

So are you suggesting the incorrect way? If smacking was illegal right now, what would be her way forward?