Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

borstal didn't work either backin the 70s

My son is nearly 18 & I've never smacked him, he has though had to face consequences if his behaviour were poor e.g missing homework = no PlayStation etc. I think problems occur when threats/consequences whatever you want to call them are not followed through. We do need to ask why there seems to be an increase in poor & disrespectful behaviour & I do think gentle & lazy parenting must contribute to this.

Really don't think legality is the "gotcha" you seem to think it is, considering marital rape wasn't illegal until 1992.
Hitting a child is abhorrent. Why would you think it's ok to hit someone who doesn't behave the way you want them to? Is it ok for children to hit if they aren't being obeyed?

My response was intended as a general observation, not a 'psycho analysis' of an individual. And I hold to it. The lesson that violence is the answer to anything leads nowhere good.

HTH.

I think it can be both.

My own (controversial) view is that anxious overly-gentle parenting and lazy screen-dependent parenting are both utterly neglectful and actively damage children and their life chances.

I absolutely agree. I’m a millennial and was definitely smacked on the bum a couple of times when I didn’t behave. I remember them though, it definitely was more between the ages of 5-7. My mum said she only ever did it a couple of times. My sister received one smack and never got one again. Neither of us are traumatised. Gentle parenting often turns into permissive parenting which is infuriating. I HATE walking around in public seeing children being little shits and parents going ohhhh dooont doooo thaaaaat in a whiny and ineffectual manner. Grow some balls and parent. People are too scared to discipline their children and give into iPads/screen time/bribery rather than setting boundaries.

Absolutely right, @OnlyTheBravest
Grandmother was a teacher in the 1960's era and saids there was a very ''difficult'' boy locally who was completely out of control even at 5 - he did indeed end up in prison {certainly as a young man}.

But yes, there used to be so many children up until the 1990's pre ''Devices'' that still ''played out'' - and definitely this is where socialising took place.

One of the last loveliest things I saw {probably 25 yrs ago} with kids playing out was three girls and skipping rope playing ''horses''...

One girl was driving the two ''horses'' who were high stepping and prancing down the street tossing their manes {hair} - They were so wrapped up in their game, and it was timeless, like it could have been 1799 rather than 1999..

Good outdoor exercise counts of a lot, and decent food.

Smacking and hitting isn't right, but firm boundaries and FOLLOWING THROUGH with a ''consequence'' is crucial.

I don't believe those parents are doing gentle parenting as I understand it. They're just lazy.

I’ve been a parent a while now and can honestly say there’s never been a situation that smacking has entered my head - even as a jerk reaction.

of course there should be consequences to bad behaviour and of course children shouldn’t be allowed to run riot.

simple example: it’s -5 degrees outside and the child needs to wear a coat but doesn’t want to.

permissive parents - allow the child to go with no coat and risk becoming unwell etc.

authoritarian parenting - shouting / forcibly putting the coat on the child

gentle parenting - explain why they need to wear the coat, give a visual of the temperature eg. The weather app, explain as there parent you cannot let them go with no coat as you are responsible for their health, explain when it will be okay to take the coat off again.

I’ve used gentle parenting 90% of the time - I will not claim to be perfect and voices do get raised on bad days (I will ALWAYS apologise to my children if I, as the adult, let it get to that point). I will explain why I think I lost control and allow them to opportunity to be empathetic. Gentle parenting works, it takes effort and control from adults and I honestly think that’s the reason people push back on it (either that or they misunderstand and confuse it with permissive parenting).

most parents are gentle parents whether they are familiar with the term our not, it’s a very natural way to parent

You said that you "could not agree more" with the OP who mentioned violence in the first post and most subsequent ones.

I don’t think it’s acceptable to smack children, but I was smacked every day from Year 2 to Year 6 by my teachers in the 70s-early 80s. Most of the children in my school were. We didn’t turn out to be criminals.

How can you condone violence towards your child but then expect them to not be violent in nursery/school/with their peers? How can we rationalise to young children that hitting them because we don’t like their behaviour is okay but that domestic violence within romantic relationships isn’t acceptable? Surely we try to stamp out violence from all aspects of life because it’s is never the answer and is never okay.

Oh no what will you do when it’s illegal?

Personally I think gentle parenting is a joke and id never do it. But I ALSO think that's because the gentle parents you read about here are 9 out of 10 PERMISSIVE parents. Who knows maybe those gentle parents getting it right don't have issues to post.

As I mentioned in my previous answer I disagree with you OP and think you are mistakenly talking about permissive parenting not gentle parenting which is also called authoritative parenting so lots of strong boundaries but not authoritarian as in my way or the highway (or a 'smack'). But I wanted to add my experience not really conventional as my mother had issues but generally we were bought up to be really polite and really well behaved. I remember her going to visit my cousins and returning and saying they are terrible they scream at your uncle and are out of control. He was an artist and I couldn't say whether he was permissive or gentle but certanly they had a more bohemian upbringing than we did in our 'how dare you question me, express your needs, say boo to me' environment. I can tell you now that my uncle has a better relationship with his children who have successful careers and are happy. We have a strained/ relationship with our mother and have more health issues and are less sucessful and probably less happy. It's anecdotal but I believe my uncle and aunty took the harder parenting route and bought up a happier family as a consequence while my mother took the easier route and probably crushed us somewhat in the process.

If you were smacked every day then it wasn't an effective punishment.

Last week I was with dog in local park, and a mother was completely overwhelmed by her young child.

The young child was just being a normal young kid, giggling and dashing off, but the mother wasn't physically fit enough to dash after the child and ''catch'' her to go home.

Mum was pleading at first, then changed to threats ''Mummy is going to leave you here alone with DOGS.

Mummy won't be able to protect you, you will be all alone WITH DOGS.

The mother ambled slowly to the gate.

There is often a pleading tone with children, rather than a commanding tone-

A friend has a lot of dogs that she commands with a voice alone- and when she gives an instruction, even my dog lines up and listens!

A firm, no nonsense voice {not shouting} can go a long way.

I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

That's not gentle parenting. That's permissive parenting.

I think there’s a danger in subscribing to a parenting style that is not authentic to the parent themselves. Child development research shows clearly the critical role of secure attachment and responsive parenting in raising well adjusted adults.

The issue I find with gentle parenting is that it comes across as inauthentic often, like its patter, and can end up being permissive to the detriment of the child’s behaviour unless it’s done by the book, which automatically makes it disingenuous.

Children are excellent bullshit detectors, they see inauthenticity in adults and do not respond well IME. Discussing feelings and giving children the space and vocabulary to articulate their feelings and drivers is certainly valuable but there’s also times when it’s appropriate to respond sternly when important boundaries are crossed.

like Brian said, ‘we’ve all got to work it out for ourselves’, (having done the reading and found a parenting style that’s makes sense as an individual and has a good basis in evidence).

I'm talking about two distinct groups of parents.

The "screens as lifelong pacifiers" crowd and the "never say no to a child" crowd are neglectful in different ways.

Since gentle and permissive are so easily confused , and gentle seems to be incredibly difficult to do perhaps we need parenting tools for normal parents

There’s a large area of middle ground between gentle parenting and smacking children. If you need to hit children to get them to behave, you’re a pretty crap disciplinarian. If you let children do what they want because you’re too weak to enforce discipline, you’re also a pretty crap disciplinarian. I think we’re all sick of seeing spoiled kids doing whatever they want and taking that behaviour into classrooms or growing up to be dickheads. But I also don’t want to see kids afraid of their own parents hitting them.

Spot on.

It’s completely nonsensical - you're not allowed to hit any adult but you can hit your child. Your child can’t hit you or another child though. All hitting is wrong except if you want (because it is a want) to hit your own child, that’s ok. You can’t hit someone else’s child though, that’s wrong.

Someone make it make sense!

Why would her mind change? Mine are 18 and 21. I never felt the need or desire to smack them. Ever.

I just have an expectation of good behaviour, of respect, thoughtfulness, and kindness towards others, and of honesty and truthfulness. That's how I live my life and, generally speaking, it's worked as far as managing behaviour goes.

It works on my Brownies too. They live up to the expectations I place on them.

I agree about the personality of the child. I was a very smug young mum with a beautifully behaved baby/toddler/preschooler. Then I had his sibling and came crashing down to earth.