Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

That is really crap and lazy parenting. Surely you must be able to do better than hitting your children.

If you are advocating for child abuse, which is what hitting a child is, then it clearly did not “do no harm” to you.

The OP has irritated me. Maybe I'll just give her a smack.

After all, she thinks it's an excellent technique.

I always thought gentle parenting was a load of old rubbish mainly because when someone told me they were doing it their kids were awful. What they were actually doing was just checking out of parenting. Or I would see complete ineffectual wet blankets letting little stroppylou kick off, run riot and scream blue murder whilst said wet blankets tell all in the vicinity that stroppy Lou is just artistic and expressing themselves. Whereas what @Lolapusht describes is much more what gentle parenting is and done in this way does work. Smacking kids is wrong. If you are smacking your child you have already lost control and smacking won’t get it back.

Why don't we continue smacking into adulthood? Maybe we can include it in the disciplinary procedures at work. Strike 1 verbal warning, strike 2 a good smack...

You can’t think for yourself what good parenting should be like? So glad I’m not in England, what an old fashioned society.

Even more awful that this assault seems to have been targeted more heavily towards one of the children than it was for the other two due to that one child being "daft" and "pushing" the poster too far (which is horrid as it implies it's the child's own fault that their parent was abusing them). I wonder in years to come whether this child will have more of a distant relationship from their parents due to the overall culture on the family whereby they're the "awkward" one who doesn't fit in with everyone else.

Smacking is lazy parenting IMO. Smacking only happens when OP are out of their depth and unable to cope. Go read a book on how to parent 5-8 year olds instead of taking the lazy option of threat and violence.

I totally agree with this. Gentle parenting doesn’t have to be soft . You can have a firm voice, sanctions, clear and firm boundaries, sticker charts, naughty steps .. but smacking is never a good idea.
Learning from others / books, classes, YouTube videos is so helpful as kids grow through various stages. I really felt like I needed lessons and help at different stages and looked for different people until I found people with a similar values to me to help me learn.

I agree that England will follow suit soon enough. @Zod666 The reason it isn’t illegal yet is because legal changes often lag behind changes in moral consensus and scientific evidence. The legal system is usually responsive rather than proactive. The government is currently looking at the changes in Wales and Scotland with a view to reflect upon the situation in England.

I don't believe there is such a thing as "middle class" gentle parenting. Stop vilifying a group of people.

There are many shit parents. They come from a variety of socio-economic groups.

My experience as a nursery teacher for 25 years too.

You won't! I was smacked regularly with the hand, the belt, the slipper. Are me and my DB traumatised? No, but life would have been better had we not been smacked, but our parents didn't know any better at the time. Will we/do we smack our children, absolutely not and I say that as a mum of two children aged 10 and 12. What I am is strict, they know boundaries and they know exactly how far they can push me, they are warned before they get there. If they choose to ignore the warnings there will be consequences that they won't like but it won't ever be physical.

Agreed - the poster is using this behaviour as a justification for smacking. But the fact that both brothers set fire to property is good evidence that the parenting tactics used were NOT appropriate.

Fear/shame-based parenting and corporal punishment instils hostility & resentment in the child. Depending on the personality, the child might retaliate with aggressive acts like this (to get back at the parents they can’t hit back) or become cowed and anxious (internalising the negative feelings and believing they deserve the violence).

All this example does is evidence that violence against children creates defiant and disrespectful behaviour. Setting fire to household property is not a natural behaviour of happy & secure children.

I was hit to the point of bruising, repeatedly, in the 70s/80s, until I was aged about 12. I wasn't a wilfully 'naughty' child - I was ND (not diagnosed until later life, I doubt my working class parents had heard of autism) so was sometimes unable to do things, and had meltdowns/obsessions and my parents' response was to get the slipper out. I was never hit at school although corporal punishment did happen at my schools, and I was a high academic achiever.

I don't think being hit has helped me at all in life. Now my parents are old and frail and dependent because their marbles are rolling away, I wish I could go back to those days and tell them that one day, the balance of power would be completely reversed, and they should keep their fucking hands off me.

As might be obvious, I fully support a ban on smacking.

If you have to hit a child you've failed as a parent. Study after study has shown the psychogical damage smacking children causes and if your argument is that you were smacked and are fine - you clearly aren't because here you are advocating for other children to be smacked.

Go touch some grass.

Permissive and passive parenting is NOT gentle parenting - which definitley does have repercussions just not physical and corporal punishments.

and yes I have parented through 5-8 mine are now 12 and 16. And yes I have also had a stubborn child but understanding him and what parenting works has worked very well. And never once have I come close to hitting them

because that is key parenting - something which is difficult and frustrating and can at times bring you to your knees is what is needed to get them through. Not this passive crap that people assume is gentle parenting

Considering the way quite a lot of adults behave, I think that the problems started way before gentle parenting was a thing.
Im also gen x, my earliest memories are of violence.
Hitting children for not behaving is not the answer. Parents acting like actual grown ups probably is.

I would never hit my child but I do believe kids need strong boundaries or they don't feel settled.

I have experienced quite a few 'gently parented' kids as both a Mum and as a teacher and, well, let's just say the disrespect and contempt from some has been really shocking and the nonchalant reaction from parents to their poor behaviour even more so.

Teachers have come to expect it, which is sad in itself, but I have to say the amount of kids who just ignore basic requests from parents has driven me mad while around friends and school Mums. If your child hears you say 'please put your shoes on' (usually in a pathetic, pleading tone) a good 10 times but continues to run off and do anything but, you have a problem and that problem will run over into school. The sheer inaction of these parents is a straight up shot in their own foot.

A couple of times I've lost patience with these performances in my home, handed the kid their shoes and said 'Put them on - Mum's waiting' and the shock on the kids face was really interesting. Another time a child (year 5 at the time) threw food on the floor while round for dinner and then when asked tot pick it up sneered at me and said 'You do it'. They were really rather unimpressed and. again. shocked when pud was refused until they'd done as requested. These kids were, unsurprisingly, the kids that were an issue at school and really struggled to maintain friendships.

My child, like all kids, is far from perfect but I'm glad I can say they know right from wrong, listens to us and treats others with basic respect.

Oh OP. I'm a Gen X parent where smacking was the norm in my childhood, with kids who are 13 and 9 - each of whom has been through various phases of defiance, boundary pushing and one at least has the potential to just spiral into increasing bad moves and bad behaviour if left unchecked.
Smacking is illogical. If non-abusive hitting as a corrective worked, my siblings and I would have had a fuckload fewer smacks and might have smacked each other less. It doesn't make a tonne of sense to tell a kid "I'm allowed to hit you in circumstances I deem are appropriate, but there are no circumstances when you are allowed to hit someone even if they've done something really wrong."

The punishments I remember from childhood aren't the smacks. One off, only hurts for a moment, whatever. Much more effective are the more swingeing punishments and consequences for behaviour that hit home for a lot longer and created a lasting impression that doing x, y, or z was going to make life significantly less pleasant.

The other issue with smacking is that you can really only use it up to a certain age and then what? You've taken a simplistic approach to discipline that leaves you without tried and tested gradations of how to deal with bad behaviour.

There is a huge amount of space on the continuum between "gentle parenting/limited punishment" and smacking/hitting. I don't agree with the "punishments don't work" people - but I think they're a lot more effective if they're tailored to the situation and the child, they're clear and consistent, and the parent/child relationship is clear.

mine are 15 and 18, and the 18yo is autistic.

I have NEVER laid a finger on either of them, and they're both mostly very well behaved, beside typical teenage pushback, so you can take this sentence and correct yourself.

Why is everyone acting like their are just two ways to parent?

Not 'gently' parenting doesn't mean you then start being violent to your child.

I have an 8 year old. I’ve never hit her. But I will say, I am definitely not a gentle parent. Sorry, I am not going to ask my child if she would like to brush her teeth or have broccoli, corn, carrots or green beans for dinner. I’m the adult I make the decisions, my word is final. There are consequences for actions and bad behaviours and occasionally I do raise my voice. But I also do listen to my child and she knows she can come and talk to me about anything. Children thrive on structure and discipline. She’s great in school, no problems with teachers or other children and she rarely misbehaves at home. I think you have to find the balance

I don't think it's because of 'gentle parenting ', I think it's because of laziness. It's far easier to hand your child a screen than it is to instill boundaries and good behaviour.

There's also a lack of respect for authority figures such as teachers and parents. Teachers are having to battle bad behaviour by both pupils and parents instead of doing their jobs.

Correct. Cue the thread in however many years time

“My DC Is NC For No Reason”