Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

It made you think hitting a child is ok, so it damaged you in that way.

It's not smacking that's missing in many cases, it's the complete opposite, what's missing is a really strong bond that makes the child want to behave for the parent. Gentle parenting done properly can work really well, it's not down to the child's personality and it's not about just letting kids do whatever they like - when it works it's down to the huge amount of time and effort put into it by the parents.

My DS was as stubborn as they come as a kid, as a young adult he'd still cut his nose off to spite his face. He's also autistic. I spent a huge amount of time though when he was little playing with him, reading to him, taking him on walks. He watched no tv before he was 2 and after that only half an hour a day. We had such a strong bond from all the time I spent with him, I never did more than raise my voice and then only when really needed. I might have had to remove him 30 times from pulling the baubles off the Christmas tree with a firm 'not for you' when he was tiny - but he learnt with repetition. He didn't need to misbehave to get my attention or because he was bored and I handled his behaviour in an age appropriate way.

To me that's what gentle parenting is all about. It's about spending a lot of time with your child and taking time and effort to teach them the things they need to learn. If the only way you can control your child is by yelling at them and smacking them then what happens when they go to school? I can tell you what happens because I worked supply in a school where the parents said to the kids said to the kids as they lined up things like, 'you better behave today or you'll get a good smack when you come home'. They were the worst behaved class I ever had.

I was smacked as a child a few times, I'm not traumatised by it but I was very resentful of it at the time. It didn't make me want to behave better it made me want to be more sneaky and get my own back where I could. It's just as bad as permissive parenting which is what I think you actually have an issue with.

My daughter does gentle parenting and my grandson is very well behaved (outside meltdowns). Her view is a lot of people who say they do gentle parenting are doing non parenting.

This is also the way I brought up, the only time I slapped my daughter she retaliated and I came off worse, now we're really close.

No, I can honestly say none of the above applies. I don’t judge my parents for smacking me and I have no ill feelings over it. I was one of 5 kids and it was crowd control.

I’ve never smacked my children, am not an angry person nor do I have a DV relationship. DH has never even called me a name, let alone hit me.

In fact my friends would actually say I’m quite tough and very resilient.

You think that if the parent hit your 1:1 that they would behave better?
Are you certain that they don't?

It's a little worrying that you are a 1:1 with a child and would advocate for physical violence.

No one should smack a child simply because you're angry with them - only for wilful disobedience. My policy of "I tell you once. I tell you twice. The third time you WILL have a smack" - and meaning it - meant that our children could make an informed choice as to whether or not they had a gentle smack on a clothed bottom. Hardly ever needed to do it (thankfully). Only one child was daft enough to make the occasional wrong choice - the other two rarely pushed me that far.

100% general parenting is completely failing our children and society because we live in a society where other people arnt allowed to tell a child off without the parent sticking up for their child’s bad behaviour.

I don’t think we need to smack children either. I was smacked as a kid and honestly o think whilst I was “good” I acted out as a teen and have an awful relationship with my parents - so much resentment. And I often didn’t know what I did wrong.

We need to tell parents to know their children - the same way that we get to know our colleagues and friends and to have a “toolbox” of actions that displines a child.

My daughter is so so good, but she was a simple child - but she has had moments where she has acted out at restaurants, disrespected an adult, done something naughty ar school- and she knows I will not have it! She knows because I tell her and have a way to ”punish” bad behaviour.

If you do bad in society, we have police - we have punishment. So why on Earth are parents so anti the idea of setting their children on the right path. We will have a self entitled generation that is no good for anyone

That stubborn child will still not do what they're told even if you smack them, so what then? How far are you going to escalate your physical punishments and what do you expect to happen when the child grows big enough to hit back?

I don't know, why was it legal for a man to rape his wife until just 1991?

There is a whole fucking canyon worth of options in between hitting children and letting them do whatever they want.

I think a really big part of it is parents who were hit and demeaned, desperate not to do it to their own kids but having no tools to know how to enforce boundaries without fear/violence and so they end up just letting the kids do whatever.

I think parenting courses need to be widely offered and the stigma behind taking them needs to binned. Parenting is hard, every child is different and it's ok to admit you need some new skills/ideas to raise a whole person. It should be seen as a positive thing.

I don’t agree with smacking children at all but I do believe that children need clear boundaries & there have to be consequences for poor behaviour. Parenting isn’t easy but if you put the work in when they are little then I honestly believe that life is easier in the long run.
Something needs to be done regarding behaviour because no one will put up with working in schools in the future & then where will we be? I say this as someone who has worked in two schools recently & I am absolutely appalled at what I saw & left at the earliest opportunity.
My DC are teenagers now & I’m so glad they are nearly through their school years.

No. They've learned that assault is an appropriate methhod of 'disciplining' someone. They've likely internalized the message from the adult that they deserved it.

All that adult really did was find temporary relief from their own anger by lashing out at someone weaker and smaller. The smaller someone then ended in believing violence was not harmful, and was an appropriate disciplinary response. And they usually protest that such a lesson 'never did me any harm'.

The evidence of harm is right there within that response. And the fact that so many parents no longer want to teach their children that lesson is nothing but a good thing.

In fact we had a play date with a ‘gently parented’ child the other day (mum doesn’t call it gentle parenting she calls it something else, but it fits with what described here). It’s a bit of a nightmare as the mum ticks you off for saying normal things (I said ‘good girl’ to the child when she held my hand to cross the road, and was firmly reprimanded that ‘good girl is for dogs, and pressures her to be a people pleaser’).

Threatening violence is abusive, and all the worse for an adult to threaten a child.

I don't understand the point you are making here. I understand that you come from an abusive background and it has distorted your view of what is acceptable, but smacking clearly didn't work if your brother did it again and many military people are totally fucked up, so that is not an indication that they turned out ok either.

My DM smacked us when we did something potentially dangerous or were very badly behaved (rare). I can assure you I was never frightened of her.

That said, I preferred not to smack - largely because I realised that if I started I might not stop. But parenting should still be strict. DC should know that if they misbehave there will be consequences that they don’t like.

You can psycho analyse me all you want but it’s a load of rubbish and I know myself far better than you do.

You are being deliberately goady op.

We are just about to ban smacking completely in England, it will be illegal. So the law does not agree with you.

If you think this will lead to a lawless society you are welcome to leave.

I have never hit my children, they are now adults and are well rounded, respectful, intelligent, socially responsible adults that are an absolute credit to themselves. They have absolute respect for their bodies and autonomy- thanks largely to their respectful and gentle upbringing.

They learnt boundaries, rules and respect through explanation, natural consequences and experience - not through physical assault.

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Plus if it were true that "middle class BS" gentle parenting is responsible for badly behaved kids, then all the working class ones would be angels, right? Especially the ones that get a slap? Can't say that's my experience...

Some parents are not good at parenting, regardless of class. Some children are particularly difficult. Sweeping generalisations about smacking are unlikely to solve either issue.

I don't what's worse - physically hurting your child in anger or the cold calculation of planning in advance to physically hurt them.

Your kids could make an informed choice as to whether their parent assaulted them or not?

I don't know what's worse actually, lashing out in anger, or making the cold, calculated choice to do physically assault your child.

Abhorrent behaviour.

Did my post mention violence? Not what I said at all. I'm also a 1:1 to manage behaviour because this child is so out of control, as are many in schools.

Nasty nasty bullying parenting through fear. Your poor kids.

I used to suffer physical violence at the hands of my adopted DD1 (now nearly 16) between the ages of 6 and 10. I was at my wits end! She was offered therapy, which involved 10 sessions of ‘theraplay’, to improve the bonding between her and my DH and me. She stopped lashing out physically, though she still threw things and screamed at us. (All this is much improved now, though.)

DD1 has been diagnosed as suffering from FASD and is now being assessed for epilepsy.

Smacking her would have been so wrong!

I would expect them to earn money to pay for a replacement.