Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

I can say as a millennial I was never smacked and I was a model child. My parents were actually pretty strict disciplinarians, but they achieved this easily without having to resort to violence. I would have a very low opinion of my parents now I am an adult if I had memories of them smacking me.

I remember my Auntie used to smack my cousins though. She was a totally useless parent, I think she had a pretty low IQ and just couldn’t figure out how to manage her children effectively. So she made up for it by smacking or threats. It didn’t work, they were still fairly naughty and confused.

That pretty much sums up my opinion of people that smack their children - too thick or lazy to parent properly and so resort to the only thing they know how to do.

Gentle parenting is about acknowledging children's emotions and helping them to manage them effectively, gradually guiding them to appropriate behaviour and actions. It is fantastic but you need to be clever to do it.

Some children never hear a raised voice until the go to school then the teacher is then blamed for being abusive.
I also think it`s to do with some having children a lot older now i mean way in their 40s nearly 50.
They have kids and hit perimenopause that changes our moods sleep and bodys add that to raising a child some just cant be bothered to parent right and wonder why they have out of control teens and entitled young adults.
I hate the saying they keep me young they really dont the older we get the less we bounce back so fast.

It did affect you. It left you thinking it’s ok to hit a child who is much smaller than you. And at what age would it not be appropriate? When they’re 15 and can hit you back?

It's a matter of degree and of balance. The pendulum has swung too far with some parents whose gentle parenting becomes permissiveness and absence of boundaries (that every child so desperately needs). In the same way the strictness of previous generations needed mitigating, but that can go too far.

What is needed is balance - kind but firm parenting.

A notion that is far beyond their understanding.

I worked in safeguarding for twenty years.

I have four children.

l now work in a nursery.

There are two groups of children who struggle, at opposite ends of the scale, those with NO parenting. And those with permissive or free parenting.

Ultimately these children suffer because of the "no parenting" approach.

Whether it's framed as neglect, at one end, or allowing the children choice outwith their capacity at the other.

The most violent children are usually from permissive parenting families.

Most people gentle parent, they have rules and boundaries and morals. They perhaps don't realise it's a thing. They don't hit their children. They love them.

The amount of adults who cannot grasp that, for eg, smacking a child repeatedly with a toy is not "normal expression" it needs managed is unreal.

I dread the day these kids get into society and suddenly have laws.

Not really sure what point you're trying to make. Your brothers were arsonists, that’s not your normal childhood behaviour. You telling your mum to piss off (and no that didn't deserve a slap round the face) sounds like a lot of toxicity going on in the family dynamics.

Smacking happens when a parent looses control - not as a consequence of carefully planned behaviour.

It is lazy and cruel.

I was 'smacked' and my parents used fear to control me. I am nc with them as a result.

I also have 3 children with Sen and have never needed to smack them. They are well adjusted, polite and generally all round great people (unlike my parents).

I’m not in the UK, and am shocked at how this can be legal. How have you not come further than this?

just checked legally physical violence against adults is allowed if protecting yourself and your property - so not all physical violence is illegal as an adult

Just for those that say "it's wrong to hit an adult so it's wrong to hit a child "

As opposed to saying it's ok to hit a child

If you stepped out of line and someone gave you a ‘measured smack on the back of the legs/bum?’ Would you consider that assault? I know I sure would!

I have a beautifully behaved 3 year old. She respects me and her teachers, she’s extremely polite and wonderful company. I’ve never had to hit her to achieve that, I’ve simply been a decent parent.

Yes they were just as unruly. My DC were absolutely boggled when I told them about some of the things we got up to at primary and secondary school in the 80s & 90s, things they wouldn't even dream of doing.

• all agreeing to hide while the student teacher was out getting the TV trolley. She ended up crying as she couldn't find us (we'd crawled into the storage space under the stage in the hall)

• having annual fight with a rival school on a patch of grass between the two school buildings. Never more than pushing and shoving but it was highly organised

• "wag day" during summer term at secondary school where everyone agreed to wag off on the same day

• smoking behind the science block

• the boys in year 9 had this thing going where they'd take it in turns to deliberately and loudly fart when ever the teacher was talking

• kid in science deliberately set his exercise book on fire with a Bunsen burner and threw it at the board

• it was a thing to stitch your fingers in textiles, going through the tough/dry skin around your nails so it wouldn't hurt

• "accidentally" cutting up random things in woodwork and misusing the tools

• stabbing each other in the back with the points on compasses. Also carving into our pencil tins with them.

• wet toilet paper or tissue, squeeze into a ball, throw it at the ceiling. It will never come down.

• pencils thrown point first like darts at polystyrene ceiling tiles

• deliberately setting off fire alarms

• minimum of one fight a day on the yard

I also remember self-harm being common in secondary school, underage drinking, teen pregnancy, smoking, drugs, some suicides, eating disorders. Mental health was generally not great but also was not recognised, you were just a "moody teenager". Safeguarding was not the same as it is now and there were a lot of children and teenagers getting into situations they had no business being in with a total lack of adult intervention. We also didn't seek adult help even when we desperately needed it because we'd get hit if we got caught so for a lot of the time we were muddling through when what we actually needed was guidance and support.

School was not a rosy, sun-drenched utopia back in the day and I think it's very telling that my generation, many of whom were hit as children, for the large part don't hit their own children. It's because we knew then it was wrong and we didn't want to carry it forward.

Kids tend to fear no-one and respect no-one. That's the problem.

So you advocate hitting them?

I didn't hit my children they are adults now i don't think I.was a particular "gentle parent" just consistent my parenting and children were not perfect because we are all human, hitting children doesn't make them behave or correct behaviour it just hurts them so the Smacking parent gets their own way.

I think there's a balance to be had.

I've never smacked my kids and never wanted to / been inclined to. Whilst I was smacked as a child and I don't believe it impacted me, I do think it's assault and unnecessary.

That being said, I think gentle parenting doesn't work and it has led to a complete lack of resilience in teenagers and young adults who tend to focus inwardly on their feelings instead of problem solving.

I did a mixture of time outs, natural consequences, screen time bans, etc. I've been the parent who has taken a child home from a nice activity because they were being naughty. I'm the parent who put them on the naughty step when they whacked their sibling. There will be some people on this board who see that as abuse. Which is ridiculous.

My kids are in secondary school / upper primary and, without wishing to brag, are amazing, kind, happy individuals who are praised by teachers for their behaviour.

I have Mum friends who did the gentle parenting thing that I've known for 10 plus years and overall, it hasn't worked. These are kids who don't sleep well, refuse to go to school, get into fights, are disrespectful, etc etc. They lack boundaries and resilience and my heart breaks for them and for my friends who vent about their problems they are experiencing.

My husband is an employer and there are significant issues with young people coming through who lack problem solving abilities and who take every attempt at feedback as a personal attack.

I really believe that we're failing our children by not instilling boundaries and giving them the opportunity to fail at things and take risks. It's sad.

Is it really bad to hit your child? Yes, it is. Who else do you think deserves a smack, any adults, or just kids?
There's a gulf between gentle parenting and physical violence ffs

The fact you think he was right and that it wasn't unreasonable to stamp on your bare foot is worrying. Your home life was abusive, as you've said, and this act was part of that. It's not a normal thing to do a child and I'm sorry it happened to you.

Oh believe me I known what actual abuse is, but I think my father didn't want me to grow up the kid with no friends who other kids won't play with . The kind of kids who are aggressive tend to be friendless or easily bullied. He didn't want that for me.

Exactly this!

I completely agree. You wouldn't hit/'smack' (people call it a smack as it sounds slightly better but it is hitting) an adult if you weren't happy with their behaviour and they are the same size as you... perhaps that's partly why and why hitting (sorry smacking) often stops when the child is big enough to hit back. There is an article in the news today quoting peadiatricians saying there is no evidence that smacking is harmless to children.

There's a big gap between what most do as 'gentle parenting' and hitting your child.

And he could have taught you that without stamping on your bare feet, feet smaller and more delicate than his own. Fear and pain are not the same as good parenting.

@Zod666 You sound horrible maybe that’s where the issue is? Parents who tell people to F off on line when reasonable views are offered.

I don't think that children should "fear" adults. I was scared of my dad and it had a profound effect on my life and relationships, turned me into a people pleaser, someone who was terrified to stand up for themselves. I think that helping children to understand and regulate their emotions is vital, as is respect and good boundaries. There is a difference between gentle parenting and permissive parenting. The latter is the one that I personally think is shoring up problems, those kids that you see belting round the supermarket or in other public places annoying people and just doing as they please. It does not help them long term as learning appropriate behaviour is a life skill, as is taking turns, knowing when to be quiet, learning that you are not the centre of attention at all times. Kids can be infuriating, exhausting and being a parent is often a challenge. My child drove me mad at times and I did occasionally smack them but I bitterly regret it and wish I could go back and deal with things differently. I used to shout a lot too, but in my defence I was on my own, ground down with the responsibility . No excuse though and I should have behaved better. I did used to try to be gentle and reasonable but I am very far from being a perfect parent or indeed human being. Looking back I don't think I had the right personality to be a parent and a lot of that has to do with the way I was parented and ruled by fear.