Why does no one like me?

[Avotoast9]

Name changed for this.
Please be honest, I've got a thick skin.

I don't know where I'm going wrong. I don't have very many close friends at all. I think most people see me as a bit pretentious and possibly too intense. I don't think of my self like that at all. I've always struggled to make friends within my age group. My closest friends have always been older and I've NEVER been part of the in-group or had lots of girl friends. I can't remember ever arguing with anyone or falling out over anything specific. I guess I just fall out of touch with people. Sometimes I wonder if my defenses rub people up the wrong way. One thing I would like people to know about me (but I don't always get a chance to show) is that I am fiercely loyal. I would change my plans in a heartbeat to support a friend if ever they needed me.

So yeah, ask me anything. Why in your opinion am I rubbing people up the wrong way. I don't have a problem making friends initially but they never really go anywhere. Is that normal or should I take a long hard look at myself?

If you got this far, thanks ☺️

I kind of identify with what you say OP. I think I might have ADHD. Lots of people say things like 'she's a bit much'. I talk a lot and get quite excited in conversation..not intending to be rude or take over but people need to be quite outgoing and loud to 'match' my energy. Which they obviously sometimes dont feel like.

So yeah, I don't have many friends. The ones I do have are great, and I know they appreciate me for being myself, even if I'm quite different and peculiar seeming to many others.

I'm certainly not prepared to change my personality or sense of humour in order to try and be more popular.

I've also always had older friends. I get on better with gen X and boomers than I do millennials or younger. I probably feel I was born about ten years too late? If that makes sense!

Anyway I'm sure there's nothing wrong with you at all. You're just a bit different.

Do you put into friendships? By that I mean do you invite, organize, suggest get togethers outings etc? It came up on another thread that people, including myself, get fed up with friends who don't put into the friendship. The reason they don't is irrelevant it's a basic social code for adults, give and take, not take,take,take. That aside I think friendships evolve from shared interests, hobbies etc so focus on what you enjoy.

The most popular people, like the most people.

Studies have been done on this. A person who has loads of friends tends to be outward looking, more interested/ focused on others rather than themselves and they're the type of people who if you mentioned a name e.g - do you remember Jane? Their first thought would be something positive about them; oh Jane - the lady with the lovely smile/interesting job/funny sense of humour rather than - oh Jane - the lady that cut me up in the car park, the lady that didn't return a smile that day, or even simply - who? etc etc.

They think more positively about other people, even difficult people, even people who most people dislike - they are always actively seeking that one nice thing about them. Their default is to look for positive traits rather than negative traits.

They also tend to be confident, open body language etc they view all other people as interesting.

So say they're at the supermarket and see Susan their first thought is - oh look it's super Susan, wonder how HER dog is now after that operation last year. I must go and say hello to HER. SHE'S such a lovely person. Oh she's just walked past and not noticed me - supermarkets are such busy places and she's probably like me lost in thought......Susan! Hi! It's been ages! It's so good to see you! How are you? How's your lovely dog?

Rather than - oh it's Susan, I wonder if she remembers ME. I wonder if she'll say hello to ME. Maybe I should wave, but she hasn't waved to ME. Maybe she'll think I'M weird or ignore ME if I did. Oh she walked past and ignored ME. She doesn't like ME. No one does. I'm going to go this way and hopefully avoid her now.

That's internal monologue - and the difference between people who make friends easily and those that don't is what's going off inside your own head.

When you think about it and think about the people who make friends effortlessly, the people who everyone seem to like, the ones who seem to just rock up and instantly everyone flocks to them and it all seems so easy for them. This is their key trait. And when you're talking to them, you feel good because they are honing in on all your key positive traits and they focus on all the topics that make you tick and happy - if you're arty - they're asking questions about art. If you're sporty the topic is on sport. If you're bookish you find they've opened a conversation about books. You walk away and you feel good.

For these kind of people - they get pleasure from making people feel good.

These people are rare as most people are focused on themselves, but they do exist.

They just approach people with a genuine caring nature and interest - they aren't looking to gain anything.

And like every personality trait there's a spectrum - people who score really low on this will have less friends. People who score higher will have more. People who score full marks will be super popular. If you can nudge yourself up the spectrum by interrupting your own negative internal dialogue- you can/will make more friends.

Have a look at Vanessa Van Edwards - she has a website the science of people. And she's done Ted talks and lots of podcasts on YouTube. Her whole career is based on the science and psychology of likability.

(I've not read the whole thread.)

You sound very like me, OP, and I'm an introvert - as is roughly just over a third of the world's population apparently.

You're generally quiet until you have something to say, but you're not shy or retiring and perfectly able to speak up for yourself if you feel the need. Small talk probably bores the pants off you - and if you do find the strength to go to large gatherings and parties it probably takes you a couple of days to recharge.

Overthinking can be a problem occasionally, and I suspect this is why you've posted. I really wouldn't worry about what other people think; introverts don't need a huge number of friends, just their own tribe. Once you find your tribe (and you'll be amazed where you find them), life falls into place.

Accept that you can't please people all of the time and life becomes so much easier.

This. I have ADHD. Adult friendships can be hard because everyone is busy. Reading your posts make me think yep, neurodivergent. Find hobbies you like, preferably with other ND people.

I don't have strong connections with lots of different people. I dont go on girl holidays etc, never been interested. I have three good friends, that I see maybe three times a year. They are the same as me - I love seeing them but I could not in any circumstances be in their pockets, ring them all the time etc, that is not who I am, and that is not who they are. I can sustain intense friendships (or what I see as intense!) for a while but not on going. I was diagnosed with ADHD two years ago and this is is quite common. I sustain friendships with people who are similar to me, and that is fine. Know you and who you are.

I haven't read all the answers, but try reading some of the personality books. I read one once to understand working with others and there are 4 different personalities (probably tons more but the book i read explained the 4 main ones), it taught me to understand others thought processes and how they behave so my need was to not speak to them how I think but to side with them in their thoughts if that makes sense.
I enjoy hill walking by myself, it gives me peace! I don't really need or enjoy company that much although i do socialise due to family but it isn't natural.

Couldn't say it better.👏

I also apparently have "a nose up", which is nonsense, my confidence was non existent until about 42 yo and "don't let people close".
I don't mind at all.

OP, is it a massive problem?
Close friends can be pain in the arse, especially if you have your own at that moment! 😊

Jesus - are you me? I could have written this post...
Now in my late 40's ... it's mostly me and the mutt - I'm happy (mostly) 😁

Not saying that OP fits into any of these categories but there are definitely obscure reasons why some people don't really click that aren't directly related to neurodivergence or appearance or personality.

Agree 1000%. Neurodiversity is not the answer to everything. Not every one in life will be your cup of tea and you in turn will not be liked by everyone. If we had the power to read every ones mind I'm sure we would all be in for a shock!👀

What was your family like? Were you made to feel loveable and worthy? I recently discovered that my lack of friends is partly due to the way I was treated as a child. I was constantly put down and made to feel not good enough. When my parents died, my siblings took over, making me feel I was unloveable. The result of that was that I could never allow myself to get close to others as I believed that they would eventually come to dislike me. All my friendships would fizzle out because of this. Like you, I told myself that people don't like me. Since I have had this realisation I am not so self conscious (I didn't realise that I had this constant chatter in my head telling me that I'm not good enough. I try to ignore it now). I find myself making the "first move" with potential friends and being less awkward in conversations. It has been an absolute miracle.

The above is just a longwinded way of saying that my sense that people didn't like me was mostly in my head. Unless you are an awful person, which I doubt, there will be someone out there who wants to be friends with you.

OP, I gave very honest feedback to an acquaintance who asked me a similar question to the one you’ve posed. I’m not usually a blunt person but in this case I thought it best to be honest. She asked me why I thought she has few friends. As several people have mentioned, I told this person that I suspects she struggles with because she shows zero interest in other people. Conversations with her are very one sided. She can talk nonstop for long periods of time about her own problems or non issues (her neighbours cat is annoying, the guy she is dating has bad breath..) and very rarely asks how people are doing. As a result people avoided her. To her immense credit she is trying to change.

I am not saying this is you but as others have asked, do you tend to take an interest in others? Engage in basic chit chat with them about their lives? If you come across as a bit intense and only wanting to talk about yourself it is difficult for people to connect.

You say you are intense. Maybe this is the clue. Try to relax, speak more slowly and smile and laugh more. Ask questions, but not too many.

Don't worry, making friends can be difficult. Suggest you join an art class or something similar then you have a shared interest. Good luck!

I find in most circles such as work, mum groups, social groups, clubs etc. I don't seem to be able to make friends beyond acquaintances. People seem interested at first and then drift or send signals that they aren't interested in being friends which is of course fine.

It's an issue in my wider family and sometimes me - ADHD and dyspraxia is common.

I've got better at small talk and and making acquaintances with age and frankly watching IL over years - my parents really struggled and often discouraged me joinging in groups and doing things that would have developed my social skills as I was "shy". So my DC are better at it all than I ever was - as they've had good examples and we've worked in those social skills though many of their friends have truned out to be ND.

However in right evironment I can and do make friends some that lasted - as do my family.

With pfb made load of Mum friends - took time but happened. We move and nothing I did worked - posted about it on here and got told must be me or lack of effort - but when I said where I was so many others piped up who were NT that they'd had issue there as well. There are some communities where your face just dosen't fit as you haven't grown up in them or been there long enough or got right background somehow - so it's not you but them.

From the people I've talked to about this...it helps them make sense of past social interactions that went wrong. It also is better to say...well, I'm autistic, than, well, I am so flawed no one wants me as a friend. It is about being at peace and self acceptance, and learning why you have certain behaviours and how to better cope with them. It also helps you recognise your strengths.

Yes, I don’t think there’s anything mysterious about the fact that it’s perfectly ordinary for people not to like some other people.

I’m trying to think of someone I met recently and didn’t take to, as an example. I met three friends of a friend recently at an event, having never met them before. Two I liked and would be delighted to run across again, one I didn’t like.

Of the two I liked — one was a warm, intelligent middle-aged academic running as a local councillor for the Greens, and we had an interesting conversation about the challenges of moving countries with a school-aged child, which we’d both done around the same time, and returning to a home country after a long time overseas. The other was a middle-aged, unemployed Frenchman who was outspoken, funny and completely upfront about having spent years living off older boyfriends and the challenges of trying to find work for almost the first time in his 50s ‘now that I’ve lost my looks’, and who was also visibly interested in what I said, and a good listener. It wasn’t a one-way ‘performance’.

The woman whom I didn’t like was an Italian of around my age. I didn’t take to her because she was self-absorbed, dull and obsessed with finding a boyfriend who would treat her according to some vaguely princessy-sounding rhetoric. It was her only topic of conversation other than her dog, and she didn’t like being challenged on some of her assumptions (‘women who don’t dye their greys have no self-respect’ ‘women with children let themselves go’ and such). I thought her window on the world was limited, and that she was a bit of a twit.

But you know, someone else would like that. My friend lived in the same building as her during Covid, and they bonded over dog walking and being childfree.

This is a great post @ZebedeeDougalFlorence

Some people grow up thinking they are not worthy of love or friendship. I'm glad that you realised you are perfectly likeable and could have friends

Have you considered you might be neurodivergent? I have similar fears/experience and have heard that neurotypical people are able to tell someone who is 'different' almost immediately and that can really inhibit your ability to form friendships. I have had a feeling all my life that I was alien and just found socialising somehow harder and less successful than all my peers. I am ADHD and it makes a lot of sense now. Most of my friends now are also neurodivergent and it's really helped me find 'my people'.

I think it can be a combination of lots of things. Perhaps where you live and work you haven’t found your ‘tribe’ of like minded people. Lots of friendship groups such as school mums are very superficial as when children move on they don’t stay friends. Same with workplaces. You get on well due to a shared workplace but once you leave there’s not much in common.

I also think there are those that put effort into friendships, making arrangements suggesting days or nights out and doing all the booking/hosting etc. and those that are happy to come along don’t ever arrange anything, which can be frustrating.

I suspect I have ADHD and it's taken me many years to realise I've stood back because I think people don't like me so I seem stand offish. For example, you go for a meal with a group of friends, I'd plonk myself at the end because I'd think no-one would want to bother sitting near me, someone would ask if I wanted to see a film and I'd be vague because I thought they didn't really want to see it with me, wouldn't call people because I thought they wouldn't want to talk to me.

I've learned behaviours that help. Always communicated well at work (teacher - a nice one) but never felt I fitted in with real life.

I tried to adapt too much to what other people are lke, for eg when we moved here 20 years ago all our lovely neighbours are very well dressed for occasions. I'd go to lunch in a Phase 8 or similar dress and just not feel me.

Learnt behaviour - I wear what I want (nothing weird, just stuff I'm comfortable in) and think about what I could chat to people about in social situations.

For the first time probably in my life (my parents moved a lot when I was young and I'm an only child and my mum was a bit odd - thought she was a bit above the others in the village and my dad was a vicar) I've got lots of lovely proper friends I have things in common with.

Stick with it and be yourself. Good luck - it can be really hard and lonely x

As I have got older I find my circle has got smaller and I tend not to make new friend . I would say me and my friends tend to begin communications with sorry I've not been in touch - I think modern life does make it harder because so many people are working longer and longer to survive. I do find social media despite its many flaws does allow you to touch base regularly so it is probably not that people don't like you.
In my different friend groups I find there is usually an organiser - the person who takes the initiative and says - how about meeting here at this time and then we all go along with it.
I have also found that because people are so busy it is easier to be specific - do you want to get lunch - at X at 1pm? rather than oh we need to have lunch which then doesn't happen.
If you find groups tiring have you tried focssing on 1-1 meets.
The other thing is do you have any interests? I have found when I am involved in something there is usually the opportnity to meet up outside of the interest too.

OP honestly don't worry, you're fine the way you are. You'll find your people at some point.

I'm an undiagnosed neurodivergent so to your average person I come across very shy, and when I come out of my shell, very eccentric. People find me offbeat. I struggle with small talk as I just don't understand how to do it, most people won't want to hear about my latest obsession, and most people's idea of small talk isn't sharing their opinions on the current government 🤣😭 I am also described as intense. I feel like an absolute alien in many settings where others seem to make friends easily, such as mum's groups.

Do you have any hobbies? It's easier to make friends if you're into the same stuff. I'm a massive board game nerd, and I've really found my social group now, and I've helps that lots of people into board games are also neurodiverse or just very dorky like me.

Also everyone has different personalities. If you have a personality that stands out or is a bit different for any reason, more people will dislike you. But some people will love you for it. And that's okay. Not everyone can be one of those people everyone seems to love. I've made my peace with it and found my niche.

A diagnosis made a huge difference to my life. I understand myself, I am kinder to myself.

There is a reason for why I am like I am. That beats hating myself any day.

I firmly believe you get the friends you deserve. If you are a good friend you get good friends. Being a good friend means genuinely being interested in other people and wanting to be a friend.

Me too