Why does no one like me?

[Avotoast9]

Name changed for this.
Please be honest, I've got a thick skin.

I don't know where I'm going wrong. I don't have very many close friends at all. I think most people see me as a bit pretentious and possibly too intense. I don't think of my self like that at all. I've always struggled to make friends within my age group. My closest friends have always been older and I've NEVER been part of the in-group or had lots of girl friends. I can't remember ever arguing with anyone or falling out over anything specific. I guess I just fall out of touch with people. Sometimes I wonder if my defenses rub people up the wrong way. One thing I would like people to know about me (but I don't always get a chance to show) is that I am fiercely loyal. I would change my plans in a heartbeat to support a friend if ever they needed me.

So yeah, ask me anything. Why in your opinion am I rubbing people up the wrong way. I don't have a problem making friends initially but they never really go anywhere. Is that normal or should I take a long hard look at myself?

If you got this far, thanks ☺️

Well I'm recently diagnosed autistic. And I'm coming to terms with not getting on with people because of WHO I am.
The thought that my LOOKs stop people relating to me as well just adds another upsetting dimension.

@Waterweight i can’t conceive quite how unhappy you must be in life to be of that view

I would 1. Look into autism. 2. Join groups of people with similar interests to yours.
I wouldn’t try to fit in with people who are never going to get you. You sound nice. I’m sure you’ll find your people.

Perhaps you’re not popular which is not an important thing. Or if you’re not in a group of friends so the groups builds momentum for meet ups etc, you could be an introvert?

i moved around a lot so know ALOT of people who I find great..however how do maintain those friendships when spread around the country? And these are individuals rather than a group. Could this be you?

This is describing me. I don't need people so never really sought them out. It's only as I get older that I realised how isolated I was and now I freelance from home I don't even have work friends to socialise with.

It's taken real effort to be the one chasing friendships rather then sitting and waiting for someone to come to me. I'm slightly anxious so that always made me hesitate to make first move as I was always uncertain if they liked me or not.

Even today I've been thinking on contacting an old work friend but putting it off in case he's bored of me or something.

There's been a couple of people that I have liked so much that I have put a lot of effort into and those friendships have maintained, all be it sporadically.

My advice for maintaining/starting friendship.

Suggest 'getting coffee sometimes' or ' let's get the kids together' or 'oh I'd love to see your orthodox russian iconography" (or whatever they are working on). Don't let them be the one always chasing you.

If they even half suggest you should do something. Take them up on it.

Ask them questions and express interest in their lives, ask follow up questions and show the appropriate emotions. Don't just talk about yourself or immediately say 'OH that happened to me let me tell you about it!. If you do the above keep it short!

Smile and wave if you see them in the street. (I blank people terribly)

If they ask how you are. ASK THE SAME BACK.

Don't get personal too quick. If you are on a long train journey together, yes you can share your long family history but not at the school gates. Leave that for small talk or moaning about work or the traffic.

Find weird niche hobbies and join a group. The weirder and nichier the better. I'm part of a fantasy novel writing group. It's the only group where I have met real friends because they have brains like me. We nerd out on magic systems and writing technique.

That posters wasn’t just “pointing out” anything

to quote directly

It'll be looks based sorry to say.

I've realised recently my friendships tend not to get deeper because:

• i'm too busy to invest much time
• i'm actually not someone who needs loads of people for emotional support etc, i don't confide loads, i rarely call people just for a chat for example
• i have a big & quite close family, and will generally prioritise time with a sibling over time with a friend
• i have had a very lucky few years, financially & career wise things have gone well, and my kids have been doing really well at school and in their hobbies. We have no money worries and have had a few lovely holidays etc. I think it can be hard for people who are struggling to be around that and a lot of people are struggling.

Why, because it states the opposite of your conclusion, but you chose not to copy and paste that bit?

...but definitely make a conscious effort to keep my mouth shut and listen too!

Its fairly usual to only have a very few close friends, people you can really trust and rely on.

I have 2 friends who struggle to make/maintain friendships.

The first I’ve known since school. She is in her 40s, still lives at home and hasn’t ever really worked due to medical problems. She is incredibly sweet, will always be there for you and extremely loyal but because she has no job and no hobbies there isn’t much to talk about with her so conversations tend to be about what is going on in my life. She updates me in what is happening in the lives of her brothers but tbh I am not interested in them - I barely know them. I want to know about her life but very little changes week on week.

The other is mid 60s and thinks she comes across in a very different way than she actually does. She is very attractive, intelligent, fit and able. She has a lot of hobbies which she gets very involved with and spends a lot of time doing. She is a loyal friend and will help out with almost anything. She is good at giving advice on a wide range of topics. However she is very opinionated and won’t let trivial things go such as pronunciations of words. Often her pronunciation is different to every single other person around her but she refuses to back down and accept she is wrong. She will then correct you each and every single time you say that word. So you end up avoiding the subject or using a different word to mean the same thing. She is also very, very needy. She doesn’t like being on her own or spending time on her own so invites herself along to whatever you are doing or guilts you into spending time with her when you have other things you need to do. Now I don’t mind spending time with her, obviously but once one person gives in she repeatedly uses that person as her company time and time again where you feel you can’t get away. When she has a partner this problem goes away and you are dropped like a stone and then don’t hear from her for weeks on end. Then when the relationship ends she is inconsolable and requires a lot of support which I am happy to give but this current time we are 10 weeks on and she still can’t be left alone. It is draining.

Obviously these friends have more good than bad in their friendship but you can see how they drive people away. I love them both and keep in touch on a regular basis and support them. They are good friends to me.

i am sure I do just as much bad things as they do but maybe in different ways.

Ultimately no one is a perfect friend and there is give and take in all relationships.

Lol. Sorry I didn't mean to make it sounds as depressing & the realisation was more so to be happy with family & random people you meet along the way then relying on friendship groups
but yes. I do believe that the vast majority of people are simply judging people day to day wise more on looks then personality

Yes there are people who don't care/people who can see past things but on a whole it's still a thing

I'm not jumping to conclusions though about wether somebody's autistic/ADHD/add though because that's a whole different ball game & I'm not trying to diagnose the OP or other Mumsnetters.

Just saying....it's probably nothing your doing she/yourself, some people just avoid others in general

Hi. Late diagnosed autistic woman. Sounds like me.

I have 2 long term, long distance friendships that are strong - talk regularly/ meet up when we can etc and a DH who I've been with for 20 years and we're great together. I have a wider uni group and we do an annual meet up, WhatsApp chat, Xmas Zoom quiz etc.

However, I completely bombed at trying to make local mum friends etc. I have a few casual friends who I used to work with over the years, who I meet every few months for food.

For me, I think it's a burn out thing. I have to do a lot of recharging, plus I am crap at reading social cues. I think I come across as serious, because internally I am so stressed and trying to hold it together. Not the best conditions for good connection.

Me too

Honestly sometimes I want to find friends but when I'm stuck in the acquaintance zone I often find the people I'm around really dull. I think even when you act appropriately you always end up showing this which doesn't help.

I’m eye rolling hard at people suggesting ND. I don’t read anything in OP’s posts to suggest that at all, and the truth of the matter is she DOES have friends, just not in the UK. Since when has that become a marker for autism along with the other things she has said?!

OP - I like to think if this in terms of compatibility. We are compatible with some but not with all. You just haven’t found your people.
My friendships are very important to me, but I only have a couple of close friends. One whom I have known for a few years but have become close to recently as she suffered through a bereavement and I have been supporting her. We totally get each other, we think in similar ways and so are great at supporting each other.

FWIW, you sound like the sort of person I would choose to be friends with. I love hearing other people’s opinions on stuff and discussing deeper topics than what they’re having for their dinner tonight. I’m also not a fan of small talk.

I also think that people are quite self absorbed these days. And have stepped away from a friendship due to just being moaned and complained at the entire time and it was exhausting! You sound very self aware, which is another trait I admire in people. I feel like you would be the sort of person who would be able to have an adult conversation if I had done or said something to upset you (or vice versa) and we could sort it out rather than running off and bitching about me but being perfectly nice to my face.

There is nothing ‘wrong’ with you, just as there is nothing ‘wrong’ with other people who have drifted away from you - you’re just different that’s all

Being late is really disrespectful of the other person.
It is like saying ''I'm more important, and don't care if they are waiting around for me''.

Another good example of incompatibility here
SOME people find it disrespectful. I wouldn’t. Depending on what we were doing and how late we are talking of course, if we were meeting for a drink and you showed up 15 minutes late I would be perfectly happy to sit and wait for you and not bat an eyelid. Doesn’t bother me.

We all just need to find our people rather than thinking there is something ‘wrong’ with us or ‘wrong’ with them

I could've written your post.

I am autistic and have ADHD. People find me 'odd'. I often don't 'get' nuance, tire extremely easily, my social battery is getting weaker as I get older and I am also a bit scatty - the worst bits of both conditions.

The sad thing is, is that in my heart - much the same as you I would give the shirt off my back in an instant. I just can't commit to a full roster of social expectations. I always feel like I don't fit in - I think this results in a subtle but very much present vibe.

I have made my peace with this. I can't change my brain. Sorry you feel horrible. It's a shit thing to deal with.

@Errors I’m eye rolling hard at people suggesting ND. I don’t read anything in OP’s posts to suggest that at all, and the truth of the matter is she DOES have friends, just not in the UK. Since when has that become a marker for autism along with the other things she has said?!

Remember this is mumsnet where there is an absolute obsession with ''ND''.

Someone only has to stub their toe to get an ''armchair diagnosis''.

@Avotoast9 Far better to have quality friends over quantity!

Two really good friends is better than twenty acquaintances.

This is great advice @Avotoast9

Do you have other relationships on your life? I have learned that friendships are a lot like romantic relationships. In the sense that takes time, effort and thoughtfulness to nurture and curate strong friendships and it has to be intentional.

But you also need boundaries - so to understand it is give and take and find the types of people you want to make the effort with.

Making friends didn’t come naturally to me for a variety of reasons, so I’ve learned this from my mid 30s onwards. Made a few mistakes along the way (found some people who are very keen to be “best” friends very quickly are usually not a great choice). But now I have a friendship circle of 4-5 close friends and a wider circle of lighter friends.

it’s not you, it’s just some of us take longer to figure this out. Good luck 💐

OP from what you've posted it sounds like you're someone who wants meaningful relationships and doesn't really enjoy the kind of preparatory work which most of us put in to build a friendship up.

That's OK, it's not uncommon, I feel a bit like this too. You might be neurodiverse, you might be a bit introverted, you say you don't like chit-chat. A lot of people find superficial social interaction quite difficult and insincere and avoid it.

I think what you have to bear in mind, though, is that you have to put a bit of this out to get something back. It may feel trivial and silly but it's actually the foundational work which allows a serious friendship to grow.

Strong opinions and passions are fine but there has to be a sense of reciprocity and light and shade. If you go from 0 to 60 in 60 seconds with people and suddenly become very intense and serious it can make people feel unsettled and a bit drained.

It's also very difficult to sustain a long-term friendship with someone who doesn't show reciprocal interest. You say you don't offer opinions without being asked but I get the sense (mainly unfairly) that you're a bit "me, me, me" in your conversation.

Making friendships: true, durable lasting friendships, is hard and takes a long time. Everyone struggles with it. But you do have to do the preparatory work and not expect miracles overnight.

I have another friend who can be a bit flaky at times, doesn’t respond to texts for days on end etc but I so love her company that I see them as her little ‘quirks’ and they actually make me smile.

When we meet up, she is always so lovely and chatty and engaging that I feel invigorated after seeing her. Totally worth the other stuff in my opinion. She’s a sweetheart. I don’t expect my friends to be perfect and all I want in return is that they don’t expect me to be either

It doesn't sound like people don't like you, simply that you aren't their top priority, and that's very different.

It's easy to have lots of superficial relationships. Where you see them, you ask how they are, good to see them etc, but it not pan into anything more than that. Maybe occasionally you'll go to their house and have a coffee, or you'll mention you want to see something and you'll go together. But it doesn't get more than that.

Sometimes I've slightly looked with envy at the close knit groups. They meet up every Saturday morning at the park for the children to play; they go on holiday together; they have coffee at each other's houses, and go on day trips together.
But then, if I think about it, I would actually find the expectation of always meeting up exhausting. I need time to myself and find large groups a bit scary.
So actually I think I'm happier being me.

I have a couple of friends for whom when I meet up it's like we've never been apart. We can always find things to talk about, but if we don't we've comfortable just sitting with each other. That's my sort of friendship.

Funny I messaged my Dh yesterday while he was at work “Everyone hates me”. I have no literally no friends apart from my DH. I’m not really sure why, the mean part of my brain tells me it’s because I’m not attractive and boring. But I hope it’s not that although we can never really know if people think you’re too ugly to be your friend, although I know I don’t give the typical responses in conversations so suspect ND. I thought by my age I’d have a little gang of friends, but I literally have no one from my past or present!

When I read @Waterweight saying
"but yes. I do believe that the vast majority of people are simply judging people day to day wise more on looks then personality" it really makes me wonder if I really want to live in this world. Really what is the pount?