To suspect the "deal" between the US and Russia Greenland for Ukraine?

[FancyRedRobin]

The way things are shaping up I'm beginning to think the USAs negotiations with Putin were for USA to stand aside and let Putin have part of Ukraine and for Russia to support the US to take Greenland.

Trump has already crashed the economy - that’s why he had to back down on the tariffs. Jobless numbers are soaring.

Women in America have the poorest outcomes in the developed world and child mortality is appalling. Education standards are slipping and literacy rates are going affect the country having any chance at growth.

@LovingHare - where do you live?

Fairyland.

Swansea I’m guessing

What would be really fascinating is if the current dramas and chaos paves the way for talks between California and Canada... there could be a mutually beneficial arrangement in there.

Oak Lawn, windy city

And you're happy with this as a precedent? Even if Trump doesn't do or mean what he says, who is to say the next guy won't? You are sleepwalking into a situation where a dictatorship, by Trump or the presidents following is a very real possibility. Alarm bells should be ringing for you. The fact they are not is very very concerning.

but then it would require every politician and president to state the truth the whole truth and nothing but, and how that plays out then it would be specifcs but enough to say its x without saying its etc

why wales ? when im usa

I don't understand your response?
Your President has openly stated he is above the law, doesn't need the Legislature, has made threats of invasion and force to other nations - allies - threatened to jail political opponents, freed people who stormed the capital demanding executions, made half your countrymen - who he is elected to act for just as much as his base - out to be enemies of the state.

But oh hey, it's ok, that's just Trump, he doesn't really mean it. It's just strategy. Nothing bad will actually happen. He's doing it for us, really, everything will be fine. Can't you see how that softens you up for the real deal? There's a reason why constant false smoke alarms are considered very dangerous by firefighters - people get so used to them sounding that they no longer look for the fire.

If Trump isn't the fire, he sure as hell is your false smoke alarm. And the current inaction toward Trump from the checks and balances established by your founders suggests a dictatorship would be relatively easy to establish in the US.

i made a mistake and misread

@ForeverScout
Power is a fragile thing, precariously perched on a foundation of laws, institutions, and the belief in order. Your words suggest we’re teetering on the edge, that chaos is whispering sweet nothings to complacency. But let me be clear: the fire you describe isn’t a fire. It’s a match being struck in a storm, its flame fragile, flickering, and always in danger of being extinguished by the winds of democracy.

Our Constitution the bedrock of this republic isn’t so easily undermined. The checks and balances, those well-oiled gears of governance, continue to churn, albeit slowly. Courts still draw lines presidents dare not cross. Congress, though bickering like alley cats, remains a necessary gatekeeper. And the people? They’re a formidable force, one vote at a time.

Is the rhetoric alarming? Perhaps. But rhetoric is not reality. And the beauty of democracy lies in its resilience. We’ve weathered storms before wars, assassinations, scandal after scandal. Each time, the republic has survived, because power, real power, ultimately belongs to the people, no matter how loudly anyone claims otherwise.

So no, we’re not softened by false alarms. We’re sharpened by them. Each warning prepares us to recognize the real threat when it comes. And should it come, the institutions will stand tall, as they always have. A dictatorship in this land? If someone thinks it’s easy, they’ve clearly underestimated the game. And the house always wins

You have a lot of pretty words but not much of substance. I sure hope the US democracy survives. Like I said, there are many off ramps here - dictatorship is not inevitable. But neither do I think US democracy is unconquerable. It is unwise and naive to think and expect that it is. And your founding fathers certainly didn't believe it to be so.

You may be ok with the compromises being made, but the fact is the US is less free than it was several years ago. Women especially so. And it is playing a dangerous game - one it may win in the short term, but long term? That is far less clear.

hope this gives more substance : While concerns about executive overreach are valid, the U.S. system has shown resilience. For instance, the Supreme Court has repeatedly struck down unconstitutional executive orders, such as the 2020 attempt to rescind DACA without proper process. Congress has also exercised its oversight powers, as seen during impeachment proceedings. These are clear examples of the checks and balances working as intended.

Furthermore, comparisons to a dictatorship overlook the tangible safeguards in place. The military, for example, operates independently under civilian leadership, and courts remain active in preserving individual rights. Voter participation, as evidenced by the record turnout in 2020, reinforces the power of the people in determining leadership.

Rhetoric matters, but institutions matter more. The continued functionality of these institutions suggests that the republic, though tested, is far from the brink

Past performance is encouraging, yes. But I know a fair amount about the religious nationalism that underpins much of the MAGA movement. That is what has the power to undermine your institutions. Those are the people emboldened by rhetoric - and there are a lot of them. They are the ones who will lend power to dictatorship. Already we've seen the stunted influence of the Republican party under the MAGA effect. And the Courts - you're not worried about a stacked Supreme Court beholden to MAGA and religious ideology?

You also speak like someone who has never experienced the very real effects of rhetoric. You've never been beaten up for not looking or sounding 'American' enough. You've never lost a loved one to lack of appropriate pregnancy care (and yes this is happening, your Drs are too scared to treat potentially fatal conditions in ban states). You've never been scared to call the cops because they might shoot you too. You have no idea the effects "rhetoric" has on people - just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it has no effect.

In any case, I'm done here. I can't tell if you're engaging in good faith - I have read the full thread and while you make some good points, you seem to have a lack of willingness to look at the US from a different point of view.

Just know this - the US made it so impossible for my husband to live a normal life outside its borders (a choice made for him as a child), and his values are so vastly different from having spent decades outside the US bubble in multiple countries, that we spent $10k we didn't have to give up his citizenship. He was made to choose - his adopted home and family won.

People outside the US don't have the same rose-colored view of the US that you do. And it will take laying down your childhood indoctrination to really, truly engage with how the rest of the free world views the US's present actions.

@ForeverScout i understand where your coming from, but if the people want democracy then thats part of the risk they take with democracy and the result is trump etc, otherwise if we wanted to not risk having a trump type person in power

then we would have to not have democracy but another suitable system instead

I think you think you understand. I really don't think you actually understand, at all. And I'm going to hazard a guess that you're young, born after 9/11. Because no, this is not and does not have to be democracy. Certainly at the very least your judiciary should be independent, right through to the Supreme Court. Your doctors should be able to practice medicine without fear of jail for transgressing against religious beliefs of people who are not their patients. Your President should get significant blow back for saying he is above the law, if not removed from office entirely. Your leaders should not threaten harm to their opponents nor make the 'other side' a public enemy. You think these things are the normal consequence of democracy. They are not. So we shall see at the next election whether democracy holds - or falls.

This shouldn't be a surprise, the US is huge compared to Europe and represents a lot of different geographical regions and cultures. An American can travel the same distance on holiday as a European and not leave the country.

Plus, the ocean is a real barrier.

I'm suggesting a hypothesis.

The US doesn't necessarily need Europe. It's been tied to them historically for all kinds of reasons, and we always think of Europe and the new world colonies as being on the same side.

But the past doesn't have to determine the future. The US could look to realign themselves with other world powers if they felt it would be more advantageous.

The biggest threat, arguably, and I think Trump believes this, is China.

Russia would be an interesting choice, it would be a big market for American goods, geographically it is close to both China India, and their military would be a significant part of the reason for preferring that. If you could have Japan and India onside as well, you would have China surrounded.

As for oil, what's stupid is that they increased their dependence on Russian oil deliberately, despite knowing how vulnerable it made them. And recently at the same time they have been worried about Russian power. The Americans would love to have more sources for Uranium.

OMG you’re doing my head in with this…APPRECIATE. That’s how you spell it. If you’re going to keep writing it, that’s how you spell it.

I was being facetious

(I think someone is deliberately trying to be a bit of a wind up merchant on here….)

Trump is doing such a good job, after years of smashing the world, the US S&P 500 Index has slipped 4% in the last month. The tech-heavy Nasdaq is down 6%.