To suspect the "deal" between the US and Russia Greenland for Ukraine?

[FancyRedRobin]

The way things are shaping up I'm beginning to think the USAs negotiations with Putin were for USA to stand aside and let Putin have part of Ukraine and for Russia to support the US to take Greenland.

Won’t happen as no Canadian is going to give up anything for America.

I agree. I also don’t think Trump really wants it: at minimum, he immediately loses control of the House and will be impeached again, just for actions in the last 6 weeks. In any sensible annexation he also loses control of the Senate and will be convicted.

My message above was for @Parker231

I guess the average American doesn't think about counties outside their own, so we all seem very abstract and far away.
Meanwhile America and American culture is very prominent to other countries.

Majority of Americans are very insular - haven’t travelled outside their own state yet alone experienced another country. Education in Trump supporters/Republicans tends to be lower.

@LovingHare have a listen to The Rest is Politics on Spotify. Episode 380 JD Vance Vs The UK. Two English politicians (1 conservative,1 labour) discussing America and their allies and wars. Might give you a different perspective.

Majority of Americans are very insular - haven’t travelled outside their own state yet alone experienced another country. Education in Trump supporters/Republicans tends to be lower.

I remember reading an article once about the number of under 21s in America who had traveled abroad compared to the number of under 21s in the UK and the difference was staggering.

Oh I'm not saying it wouldn't be bad. But you fundamentally misunderstand the damage that is being done to the US standing internationally. Keep down this path and I expect the US will become a rogue power like Russia and North Korea. The rest of the world is in for some shitty times ahead, hence why people are so pissed off. There's no need for it.

If America wants to back off their 'world leader' responsibilities then there are other ways to do it. This way ensures broken trust, bad feeling and - eventually, commerce and peace will find a way without the US. I think that's what Americans have no concept of - all empires fall, and eventually they will be irrelevant, or kept at arms length.

And let's not pretend Trump's oh poor us we're so put upon routine is based in reality. The US has done very very well out of its partnerships and position in the world. I would wager it's taken far more than it has given.

@LovingHare thinks that America is the one power which is stopping the world from fragmenting whereas in reality it’s the opposite - the damage Trump has done in the last week is unforgivable. His behaviour with Zelenskyy was one of a spoilt child and his withdrawal of intelligence has directly killed innocent Ukrainians.

The world will never revolve around America again.

And there is a very interesting point about where people travel. The British go to France, Spain, Italy etc. They go to equal, democratic, free and developed countries which are seen as being part of a shared historical path in many ways.

Americans go to Mexico, in their droves. They see it as a poor cousin, full of people desperate to be American. Cheap and fun, but not an equal. There is an undercurrent of racism, looking down and expecting service without a mutual feeling of respect. Mexico and Mexicans are bullied not respected. Americans don't even all entirely understand that Mexico is North American, not Central American.

It simply isn't the same as going to a broadly comparable European country. Of course drunk Brits in Spain is a thing. But not the same level of thing.

Not lost to extremism yet, no. There are off ramps still available. But your current trajectory is not looking good.

The fact remains if we were to move "home" (as DHs relatives still insist on terming it on our behalf) - we would lose universal healthcare, myself and DD lose guaranteed rights to our own bodies, police would no longer be safe to go to for help, my kids education would not be guaranteed free from religious interference, separation of church and state no longer a thing, and my kids would have to literally buy their way out should they ever want to live and work elsewhere without being subject to insane punishments for doing so. Been there, done that, thanks, but no thanks.

Also, I'm not in Europe. And just because others are doing bad stuff, that gives the US a free pass to do likewise? C'mon. You can't claim to be the most best, most moral, most free, most amazing (only) country on the planet and play it that way without being called out.

I'm starting to think Trump is like Pontius Pilate, condemning the Ukrainians to death by withdrawing information and halting weapons, yet very publicly trying to wash his hands of his crime.

Canada can breathe a sigh of relief he’s decided he doesn’t need them or anything from them now. No lumber, no cars, no energy, nothing. America has more trees, but the environmental lunatics stopped them from cutting the trees down so now he’s signed an executive order allowing all the trees to be cut down. 🙈😆.

Americans are not in any position to boast about leverage or influence. You guys have handed over your country to Putin. He owns your president. He’s the guy with the leverage now. The US you think you have is an illusion now. You’re a puppet.

And Putin demanded to get under the covers for a snuggle and they let him be the big spoon!

Absolutely correct. Never mind a 51st star on your flag, it'll be a hammer and sickle by the end of 2026.

Most of the last 100 posts are completely deranged, in my opinion. For what it's worth, which isn't much. What matters is the strength of the opinions that we declare are important and that we would be willing to say, we will fight on this point. I don't see many stepping up.

I think the Canadians on this thread have made their point that we won’t be bullied by Trump - our country is amazing and we’re not dropping our standards down to the level the Americans suffer.

I think Canadians always have stepped up when needed. That isn't tubthumping from me - I am well aware that as a country/military power they are not the biggest and anyway I am not Canadian so no skin in the game. But if you are talking about willingness to step up, historically that has always been there.

Can't disagree with you @Parker231. I wouldn't want to be bullied either. But the bits of British Columbia we visited by accident... I would not want to have to live there. I have never seen elsewhere such brazen drug dealing in open view, as I saw in supermarket carparks in suburban towns near Vancouver. Not in the roughest neighbourhoods of NYC. And I lived in NY in the 1980s. Canada has serious social problems. And I saw them 20 years ago, so I am guessing it has not got better.

Very small areas of Vancouver have a drug problem - which large city doesn’t although we’re in Montreal and no issues. NYC and cities like Chicago, Miami and Detroit are awful as is London.

Not been to San Francisco then?

Ways Current U.S. Actions Make Things Better

Economic Growth: Policies like tax cuts and deregulation have been credited with boosting economic growth and reducing unemployment.
Energy Independence: The U.S. has focused on energy independence, reducing reliance on foreign oil and bolstering domestic energy production.
Trade Policies: The "America First" trade policies aim to protect American industries and reduce trade deficits.
National Security: Increased defense spending and a focus on cybersecurity have strengthened national security.

Is It All Smoke and Mirrors?

While some critics argue that these policies are more about optics than substance, there are tangible results, such as job creation and economic growth. However, the long-term sustainability of these gains is debated, especially given concerns about income inequality and environmental impact
Future USA: Long-Term Improvements

Technological Advancements: Investments in research and development could drive innovation.
Infrastructure Development: Plans to modernize infrastructure aim to improve connectivity and economic efficiency.
Healthcare and Education: Reforms in these areas could lead to a healthier, more skilled workforce.
Global Leadership: Strengthened alliances and strategic policies could maintain the U.S.'s position as a global leader.

Distinction Between Global Power and Everyday Life

There's often a gap between what benefits the U.S. on the world stage and what improves daily life for Americans.

For example:
Global Power: Policies that enhance military strength or economic dominance may not directly address issues like healthcare or education for citizens
Everyday Life: Domestic policies focused on social safety nets, affordable housing, and healthcare have a more immediate impact on Americans' quality of life.

Policies like tax cuts and deregulation have been credited with boosting economic growth and reducing unemployment.

Didn’t work here when the Tories tried it.

Such policies have led to a growth in millionaires and a consequent impoverishment at the other end of society across the board, wages, employment housing. That is plain for anyone to see although beneficiaries tend to look the other way as the underclass grows.