Wtf is wrong with people when it comes to hidden disabilities?

[Whatthebarnacles]

Full on rant incoming! Ready to be flamed in the depths on MN hell for this but it really is a hill I'm happy to die on so whatever will be, will be!

I'm absolutely sick to the back teeth of certain people on here who eye roll and sneer that those with hidden disabilities should be treated the same as neuro typical people.

Non verbal, lashing out? Report to police for assault - how dare they lay a hand on someone else 🙄

Can't sit still / constantly stims? Expel them from school - why should my "normal child" be affected?🙄

Stares and makes noises? Tell them you're uncomfortable and to stop immediately, we have the right not to be ogled.🙄

Can we please just stop it?! It's like the world's gone mad! All the years of effort to try and make people aware of hidden disabilities just seems to have crumbled an i've seen it happenn in here over the last 6 months or so more than ever. There seems to be an almighty wave of this incredibly farcical "BUT ME AND MINE" or "MY RIGHTS" just smash through the work that had been done and its depressing as shit.

Would you call the police or kick off on someone who spilled a cuppa over you then laughed? Or caught your face , if...

1. They were 4 years old? Nope, so why would you for someone with intellectual disabilities? You would talk to the carer. Rightly so.

1. If they had Parkinsons? Would you bollocks. Because you can SEE that disability and because its a physical one, then it can't be helped, right?

1. They were clearly ND?

There are countless people in here who would because, according to them, they do not have the right / there needs to be consequences / they're an adult regardless / i am woman hear me roar etc.

I cant get my head around the lack of understanding

And don't get me started on those who turn these things into "us women" need to defend ourselves. And faux outrage "would they have done it to a man? I don't think so!" Urgh. Yes... they would. A disability is a disability, a stim is a stim, a jolt is a jolt. Hair is dangly, splashing someone or spilling something is funny, stimming is calming on the inside whilst frantic in the outside.

Frankly, it turns my stomach. Why is the world so angry at people who are different at the moment?!

I can only presume that the number of people now having been diagnosed is pissing these people off. I've honestly never ever heard so much "just because they're xyz doesn't mean that..." in my life. See also "they need to learn" or "they should know"...

I fret for my son growing up in this. He doesn't stand a cat in hells chance.

YABU - Of course ND people, should be treated the same as NT people when it comes to differing behaviour, regardless of mental age or physical disabilities associated with their condition.

YANBU - MN is rife with it at the moment, I've noticed that too.

Annnnnd..... crucify me. GO!!

ND and NT people are extremely likely to react badly if someone invades their space, touches them inappropriately or behaves violently towards them. They won’t ponder over whether someone has a hidden disability, or even a very obvious one, they will simply react according to their instincts.

Did anything come of it from the police?

I can’t imagine how you must’ve felt. I don’t think I’d be accepting of any rationale in that moment.

OK, so when was the last time you saw somebody missing a leg get told to just get up and walk it off?

That's the point of that "rhetorical device" - that's effectively what autistic folk (and other folk with non-visible disabilities) get told all the time. It's not meant to imply any equivalence of disability as though somebody's playing Top Trumps for points; it's about asking for the same level of accommodation and understanding.

I see it on threads pretty much daily on here. 'ND is an excuse, parents are too soft, DC needs a good smack'.

I agree with you OP apart from your first point.

Assault should be reported to the police for the sake of the person with the hidden disability, as much as for anyone.

It's not safe for them to assault people - for them or for the people being assaulted, and if this is what's happening, they need proper care to prevent it from happening again.

Yes, one could contact the care company if there is one but to be perfectly honest, some of them are unreliable so hopefully police involvement would trigger the right help/action from the right people.

@Downtoearthandsinksthesun I think all children deserve to be included in a way that is safe. That doesn't mean everyone else just accepts being hit. That means the adults involved realise what is behind the hitting behaviour, and put things in place to support inclusion as well as safeguarding all children in the school. It sounds to me as if your daughter's school are not doing that. Unfortunately SEN provision is often rubbish.

@NC28 Not enough, they took it up with the care company but we never heard anything else. Everyone just seemed terribly “accepting” of what happened. I was totally devastated tbh, took me ages to process it.

You're absolutely right. You are having to limit your life massively because of your spinal injury, unfortunately people who cannot stop themselves from assaulting people will also need to limit where they go because no one should ever be put in the position where they could cause serious injury (or in your case even worse) to another person. And nobody should go out to a public place and be assaulted by anyone.

No one should have to put up with being assaulted, verbally nor physically. Kids shouldn't have to put up with school lessons being constantly disrupted. I know it's not the "fault" of the disabled person, but we need to find ways of protecting everyone. Having a disability shouldn't be a "get out of jail free" card! If someone is likely to assault someone else, then they need a full time carer with them to stop them harming others. If a school child can't control themselves, then they likewise need to be taught separately or schools need more support assistants to keep them under control. Sorry, but everyone else has a right to an education and a right not to be assaulted.

Honestly, I’d have reacted like an absolute maniac I think. I have a 3 year old and the image of someone karate kicking them makes me want blood.

There are no absolutes, of course we should make allowances for those with hidden disabilities but that doesn't extend to hurting other people or making their lives a misery, children should be able to have an education not affected by another child disturbing their learning too.

It's a case of reasonable adjustments so often but no, if a person hits you you do not have to accept that ever

It is normal when planning to have DC to expect that you will be able to work, maintain a social life, have a night alone with your husband again before you die and have infact managed to do these things since having children. I am not actually complaining but I suspect you have zero idea. My DC cannot attend breakfast or after school club for example. I haven't had a child free night with my husband since he was born 8 years ago. I cannot go out for a meal except during school time, as I need to be on hand 'just in case'.

@ntmdino That's not the way it's used. It's used in the context of "no one would say/do [whatever ableist thing] to [a wheelchair user/someone with whatever other condition]" even though actually yes, they would and do, very often. Speaking as a wheelchair user with multiple physical conditions.

I'm also ND, so not dismissing how significant that can be.

It's not bigoted to be wary of men who are stronger than us and acting unpredictably. How would a woman know in that moment it was due to disability?

surrounded by the predatory to be hyper aware of danger

Unclear what you mean here but women being aware of danger from men is based in fact, not paranoia. Insulting to say it comes from some kind of indoctrination when it's usually personal experience.

It’s not just my school, it’s lots of schools. You see it here all the time on here. Children are not included in a way that is safe because you know… inclusion. School’s hands are tied because.. inclusion. You may say all children are entitled to an education but if they are not able to be in a classroom without hurting others on the daily well they should not be there. Why should 29 other children be put at risk, be hurt, not be able to learn because of one child? Why should my child come home home distraught because she has been punched in the face and tables have been turned over and class gas to be evacuated. No feck that. So tired of it.

Agree with all of that. The poster you were replying to probably stays away from busy, unpredictable environments because of her spinal injury. It’s sad, and it’s very unfortunate for anyone in that situation that they need to take measures, but she’ll do it to protect herself.

All too often people with behavioural issues or lack of impulse control are shoehorned into situations that are totally inappropriate for them, causing huge reactions that harm others (and maybe themselves).
Again, it’s a shame, it’s very unfortunate and in an ideal world, things would be easier for them. But if they can’t manage in a certain place or environment, they should be helped to find alternative one that are better suited.

Sorry haven't RTFT

The needs of the country has to work for the 'majority'. We've tried so hard in recent years to make things work equally for the 'minority' (whichever group that may be ) we've gone so far to make things work for the 'minority' that the 'majority' have a world that doesn't work so well for them. Think trying to make main stream school work for children at the severe end of the SEN spectrum - causing major disruption for the 'majority' children. It benefits neither.

I think "you average Joe" sometimes feels like their opinions and needs don't matter and are constantly told to "educate" yourself on 191 diversities and aren't able to vocalise their frustration, so are silenced. So it comes out as indifference or feeling slightly 'peaked' by yet another "you need to accept my child stims. It's just a stim. Lilly needs to educate herself about stimming and accept her hair gets pulled". People get tired and weary.

Difference should be accepted and embraced. The needs of the majority should not be compromised to an unacceptable level by it

I'm absolutely sick to the back teeth of certain people on here who eye roll and sneer that those with hidden disabilities should be treated the same as neuro typical people.

If the person with a disaibilty assaults someone then presumably they won't be treated the same as NT people. It's not up to Joe Public to decide someone's capacity or understanding, that's for the police to decide, in conjunction with the person's associated professionals. Who they will liaise with once a report goes into them.

Non verbal, lashing out? Report to police for assault - how dare they lay a hand on someone else 🙄

If it was a random hit while walking past then I probably wouldn't report but if I was properly assaulted then yes I would. Police reports can also help as it builds up a body of evidence and a paper trail that the person needs more support than they are currently getting.

Can't sit still / constantly stims? Expel them from school - why should my "normal child" be affected?🙄

The child should be given extra support. Perhaps in another class/unit as while the child may not be able to help it, it's also not fair to the other children whose education is being disrupted.

Stares and makes noises? Tell them you're uncomfortable and to stop immediately, we have the right not to be ogled.🙄

I would ignore this.

I do agree with parts of what you say. However I have a son with autism and we've always had the approach that he may have certain reactions and sensitivities but he can't use autism as an excuse for bad behaviour. We've had to try a lot of different approachs to help him cope in different situations without hurting or causing disruptions to other people. He had a terrible problem with hitting other children when he first started school. We had to have a zero tolerance approach with consequences for every hitting attempt even if he didn't make contact. It was insanely difficult and took a full year but he's now learned to control the impulse and will walk away, exercise or he has a box of soft toys he's allowed to throw when he's angry. I get it though the judgement of others is tough when your in the thick of it all!

I was once told that I needed to accept that a person at a group I used to attend, has mental health issues and harassed people. He doesn't take responsibility for his behaviour, but expects the rest of us to be ok with it

They weren't happy that I said I was leaving because I'd had enough of being blamed for him being sectioned and his behaviour towards me

Noises and stimming are not causing harm to other people, being violent is. We all know that babies have no sense of danger so we wouldn't put them in a situation where for instance they could grab hold of a hot cup of tea. It's the same with adults with severe learning disabilities, it's the job of the carer to keep them safe. That means that if the carer knows they are likely to grab or pull at other people they shouldn't be put in that situation because no one knows how someone will react.

@WalkingonWheels
Why complain about respite? You chose to have children. When you choose to procreate, there is a chance that the child will be disabled/neurodiverse. Complaining about something you chose is the height of entitlement.

This logic is absolutely ridiculous. Getting into a car and knowing there is a chance of an accident does not mean I chose to have an accident.

(Not equating having a disabled child with a car crash here, just talking about the mechanism of choice.)

Sorry for this, but if anybody shouts in my child's face or lays a hand on them, disability or not, I'm reacting quite unfavourably to them. I've put that as politely as I can.

@Itisbetter I was going to post something similar. A lot of people view certain behaviours as suspicious when they may not be suspicious at all and in fact linked to an invisible disability. This is particularly hard when police and security guards hold those same prejudices.

The thing about reasonable adjustments - the clue is in the name - they have to be REASONABLE.

Adjustments may be unreasonable if to implement them would adversely effect others.

So you might think it a ‘reasonable adjustment’ that child be allowed to remain in the classroom when screaming rather than being removed - but is actually not reasonable because it has a higely detrimental impact on everyone else.

Adjustments are only reasonable to the point that they don’t disproportionately negatively impact the needs and rights of others.

I have worked for a carer of adults with LD, some of whom could be violent when overwhelmed. Their risk assessments covered this extensively and set out how many carers should be with them in which circumstances - down the how close they should be to the person (ie never more than an arms length away, always in sight etc).

If the risk assessment is insufficient, out of date or being ignored, or staff become complacent then THEY should be held to account first and foremost. If the risks cannot be reduced to an acceptable level then the trip put doesn’t happen unfortunately.

Violence is never acceptable.