Wtf is wrong with people when it comes to hidden disabilities?

[Whatthebarnacles]

Full on rant incoming! Ready to be flamed in the depths on MN hell for this but it really is a hill I'm happy to die on so whatever will be, will be!

I'm absolutely sick to the back teeth of certain people on here who eye roll and sneer that those with hidden disabilities should be treated the same as neuro typical people.

Non verbal, lashing out? Report to police for assault - how dare they lay a hand on someone else 🙄

Can't sit still / constantly stims? Expel them from school - why should my "normal child" be affected?🙄

Stares and makes noises? Tell them you're uncomfortable and to stop immediately, we have the right not to be ogled.🙄

Can we please just stop it?! It's like the world's gone mad! All the years of effort to try and make people aware of hidden disabilities just seems to have crumbled an i've seen it happenn in here over the last 6 months or so more than ever. There seems to be an almighty wave of this incredibly farcical "BUT ME AND MINE" or "MY RIGHTS" just smash through the work that had been done and its depressing as shit.

Would you call the police or kick off on someone who spilled a cuppa over you then laughed? Or caught your face , if...

1. They were 4 years old? Nope, so why would you for someone with intellectual disabilities? You would talk to the carer. Rightly so.

1. If they had Parkinsons? Would you bollocks. Because you can SEE that disability and because its a physical one, then it can't be helped, right?

1. They were clearly ND?

There are countless people in here who would because, according to them, they do not have the right / there needs to be consequences / they're an adult regardless / i am woman hear me roar etc.

I cant get my head around the lack of understanding

And don't get me started on those who turn these things into "us women" need to defend ourselves. And faux outrage "would they have done it to a man? I don't think so!" Urgh. Yes... they would. A disability is a disability, a stim is a stim, a jolt is a jolt. Hair is dangly, splashing someone or spilling something is funny, stimming is calming on the inside whilst frantic in the outside.

Frankly, it turns my stomach. Why is the world so angry at people who are different at the moment?!

I can only presume that the number of people now having been diagnosed is pissing these people off. I've honestly never ever heard so much "just because they're xyz doesn't mean that..." in my life. See also "they need to learn" or "they should know"...

I fret for my son growing up in this. He doesn't stand a cat in hells chance.

YABU - Of course ND people, should be treated the same as NT people when it comes to differing behaviour, regardless of mental age or physical disabilities associated with their condition.

YANBU - MN is rife with it at the moment, I've noticed that too.

Annnnnd..... crucify me. GO!!

If someone is violent as a result of drink or drugs they may well end up with a custodial sentence

Personally I would prefer if we paid for sufficient support for all people to avoid that

I wonder why you don’t automatically say they should be banned from public spaces and placed in residential care though?

Not one of the better ideas !!!

It's not about being 'vengeful towards a disabled person'... seriously, what kind of idiotic rhetoric is that!?

It's about people not being assaulted. Hope that helps.

For the record, I have a formally diagnosed hidden illness. Other people don't remotely have to make 'allowances' for that.

Why amnt I saying the violent drunk should be in a locked up home? Wierd question - Because if they are in jail they are locked up and banned from public places ?

And they may also be given sentences that prevent them going out in the evening or to the pub

The working assumption is that most people could change their behaviour

You are arguing that because they can't change their behaviour we have to accept whatever they do without restraint or restrictions.

Totally agree. A kid acting that way sure I am understanding. A grown up putting their hands on me - thats assault and you are darn right I am calling the police.

No matter what your hidden disability you don’t get to assault people. Otherwise your example are fine.

Non verbal, lashing out? Report to police for assault - how dare they lay a hand on someone else 🙄

Are you seriously suggesting that if a person is assaulted that they shouldn't call the police?

Curious to know where you draw the line. How about rape? Is that also not the ND makes fault?

Or how about my son who was violently kicked in the head by a ND person twice his size....? How do you expect us to react? To sit him down and explain that in most circumstances he has a right to not be kicked in the head, but this is different and he needs to tolerate it? Fuck that. And I genuinely don't care if you think that makes me ableist.

What did you do when your son was kicked? Was he a child?

I haven’t said anything like that. My question was really why you jumped straight to depriving disabled people of their liberty?

It’s odd that you understand a child has limited control but not someone with limited capacity. Nobody is condoning anyone assaulting anyone else.

So what is your answer then, if carers aren’t able to stop an assault happening? I don’t think many / anyone here is actually blaming the disabled person for the lack of control, but if their actions are putting other people at risk something has to be put in place to keep people safe.

And it is different to a child having limited control, not in terms of intent but in terms of the damage they’re potentially able to do when they’re out of control. A six month old baby lashing out isn’t going to seriously hurt someone unless they’re very unlucky. A 25 year old man lashing out could kill.

As the mother of someone with a disability, this thread has become a very sad and depressing read.

It isn’t odd at all but thanks for the judgement. I understand no one is condoning it but the OP used this as an example of understanding physical assault and hidden disabilities. It’s the damage that can be done not the disability behind it.

It is odd (and to be clear I mean unusual and illogical).

So what is your answer then, if carers aren’t able to stop an assault happening?
Presumably if a carer is not supporting their employer then they need to provide adequate care or be replaced or helped by someone who can.

And it is different to a child having limited control, not in terms of intent but in terms of the damage they’re potentially able to do when they’re out of control. A six month old baby lashing out isn’t going to seriously hurt someone unless they’re very unlucky. A 25 year old man lashing out could kill.
It remains the case that disabled adults are far far more likely to likely to be attacked and hurt than those without disability. While I understand your concern it’s a very big jump from pulling someone’s hair and naughtily skipping behind a counter in a cafe, to killing someone. I know you are only trying to make a point but this idea of the violent dangerous uncontrollable learning disabled/autistic/non verbal/mentally unwell man is actually fairly problematic for people who fall into that section of society.

If they have capacity then it is their own responsibility not to assault people or place themselves in a situation where they may cause other people harm. It they do assault people then they should go down the criminal prosecution route.

If they do not have capacity then it is the responsibility of their guardian to make sure they are not able to hurt people - and that includes not hurting any carers they may have. If they do then they may need less access to the community - which for some will be secure mental hospitals for life. Ultimately, if someone without capacity who is known to present a risk is allowed in a position where they cause serious harm (which absolutely could include killing someone) it will be the guardian and employer of the carers who will face most questions and potential criminal prosecution. (In most cases the guardian will be the State in the form of specialist social workers).

In your position, if your child (not sure of their age etc) was to hurt someone in public, what would your reaction to that be? And what sort of reaction would you be looking for from the person who was hurt?

If they're a child now, do you think your reaction/the reaction of others will change when they’re an adult?

Would be insightful to get your thoughts, as someone in your position.

@Toomuchsaltineverthing you absolutely do NOT have to share any personal details of your own fears and experiences to satisfy the curiosity of anyone on this thread.

@Itisbetter No one has to share anything online, obviously. But it's frustrating as a disabled adult to contribute to threads like this and then have parents come into the thread making very general comments about how awful we are for talking about the topic in question. Disabled people are not just the subject! We are right here. Talking. Sharing our thoughts.

I would imagine there are plenty of posters who have personal experience of the topic. I would suggest someone who posts As the mother of someone with a disability, this thread has become a very sad and depressing read. might not be in a good place to feed the curious or educate the ignorant. Obviously that’s up to that poster but nobody should feel pressured to do so.

Of Course anyone can post on any topic on a thread but if you try to derail a thread other posters are bound to object.

It remains the case that disabled adults are far far more likely to likely to be attacked and hurt than those without disability.

I often see this written. Do you have evidence to back it up?

I don't know how data would be collected on this either. Lets say I was attacked by a man on the street and left bleeding, I would report this to the police, data would be collected. Lets say I was attacked and left bleeding by my friends big strong teenage son with non verbal autism, or somebody else with the same level of disability. Almost certainly, I would not report this to the police (although I would fight back to free myself and prevent further injury). No data would be collected on the second attack by the disabled person.

I don't think I'm alone taking this view on when to report an attack and when not to?

Also, I can think of three recent incidents were disabled people have gone out and killed somebody. I can't think of anything recent were a non disabled person has gone out and killed a disabiled person. I'm sure it happens though, maybe it just doesn't get reported?
Anyway despite what I think would be the difficulty in collecting this sort of data because I believe people would be less likely to report being attacked by a disabled person (fully ready that I might be wrong) I would like to see where this comes from.

www.openaccessgovernment.org/nine-out-of-ten-autistic-women-are-victims-of-sexual-assault/134603/

Not sure about the credibility of that source. They didn’t link the study referred to so you can’t see how the numbers were arrived at. They conclude:
it would “be a mistake” to assume that autism is mainly why women are targeted by sexual offenders. In fact, the team say that the reason for sexual violence against autistic women is their womanhood.

I clicked on the link for ‘autism spectrum condition’ hoping it would take me to the study. Instead it took me to an article headed ”Scientists find Black pupils have highest rate of autism in UK”. Which goes on to state ”This new data found that Chinese pupils are 38% more likely to have autism than white pupils, with Black pupils 26% more likely.”. 🤔