Wtf is wrong with people when it comes to hidden disabilities?

[Whatthebarnacles]

Full on rant incoming! Ready to be flamed in the depths on MN hell for this but it really is a hill I'm happy to die on so whatever will be, will be!

I'm absolutely sick to the back teeth of certain people on here who eye roll and sneer that those with hidden disabilities should be treated the same as neuro typical people.

Non verbal, lashing out? Report to police for assault - how dare they lay a hand on someone else 🙄

Can't sit still / constantly stims? Expel them from school - why should my "normal child" be affected?🙄

Stares and makes noises? Tell them you're uncomfortable and to stop immediately, we have the right not to be ogled.🙄

Can we please just stop it?! It's like the world's gone mad! All the years of effort to try and make people aware of hidden disabilities just seems to have crumbled an i've seen it happenn in here over the last 6 months or so more than ever. There seems to be an almighty wave of this incredibly farcical "BUT ME AND MINE" or "MY RIGHTS" just smash through the work that had been done and its depressing as shit.

Would you call the police or kick off on someone who spilled a cuppa over you then laughed? Or caught your face , if...

1. They were 4 years old? Nope, so why would you for someone with intellectual disabilities? You would talk to the carer. Rightly so.

1. If they had Parkinsons? Would you bollocks. Because you can SEE that disability and because its a physical one, then it can't be helped, right?

1. They were clearly ND?

There are countless people in here who would because, according to them, they do not have the right / there needs to be consequences / they're an adult regardless / i am woman hear me roar etc.

I cant get my head around the lack of understanding

And don't get me started on those who turn these things into "us women" need to defend ourselves. And faux outrage "would they have done it to a man? I don't think so!" Urgh. Yes... they would. A disability is a disability, a stim is a stim, a jolt is a jolt. Hair is dangly, splashing someone or spilling something is funny, stimming is calming on the inside whilst frantic in the outside.

Frankly, it turns my stomach. Why is the world so angry at people who are different at the moment?!

I can only presume that the number of people now having been diagnosed is pissing these people off. I've honestly never ever heard so much "just because they're xyz doesn't mean that..." in my life. See also "they need to learn" or "they should know"...

I fret for my son growing up in this. He doesn't stand a cat in hells chance.

YABU - Of course ND people, should be treated the same as NT people when it comes to differing behaviour, regardless of mental age or physical disabilities associated with their condition.

YANBU - MN is rife with it at the moment, I've noticed that too.

Annnnnd..... crucify me. GO!!

@Ma1lle It genuinely is shocking how little empathy you have for victims.

I agree. While it's a very sad case and he can't help it his rights do not trump the rights of women not to be assaulted, their safety is the most important thing. Of course him doing this also puts him at risk as someone may understandably hit back hard.

Ridiculous!

As I’ve explained. My children have been victims. There are procedures to follow- for a reason.

I really wish that people would stop promoting the idea that there are many disabled young men waiting to assault females. You wouldn’t do that about young men of a different race or religion but you seem to feel no hesitation in promoting the idea repeatedly. Yes, there are disabled men who are predatory or uninhibited but they are not the norm and you are reinforcing a stereotype that causes a misunderstood group untold difficulties.

Just to reiterate NOBODY has condoned any form of violence or assault. What you say on line is not benign and you should want to be part of making the world better not worse for everyone.

I don't care about race, religion, NT or ND, if men assault women they shouldn't be on the streets. In the case of an ND man also for his own safety as he could also end up getting hurt if a woman fought back (I don't care about the safety of the others, they know what they are doing).

I'm aware that you only hear certain stories online and can only comment on them. I'm also aware that it's not every man who is ND but do you think people shouldn't be able to discuss it?

Posters have been saying we should make allowances but no one should be assaulted. If someone assaulted me I wouldn't care whether they were ND or NT, I'd care about myself. If that means shouting or lashing out, or reporting the attacker to the police then that's what I would do and let the police and carers sort if out afterwards.

But the child you're encouraging doesn't understand the consequences you are happy to impose on their life. For example a DC that has had multiple exclusions for violence towards a disabled child will have less choice in life than a DC that does not. A DC that is taught to resolve conflicts through violence will take those lessons into adult life. And not all of the children taught that will be female.

Also, lots of DC will not stop when the situation escalates. It is better for your DC to be taught to escape the situation rather than putting them at risk of more harm.

I agree nobody should be assulted of course.

But the reality is that there is not enough support for parents and family carers.
It is very easy to say that this teen should be adequately supervised at all times to protect himself and others. The reality is different.

We don’t know the situation. Perhaps he is being cared for by a single parent (usually the mother). Disability in the family increases the risk of relationship breakdown, so if this doesn’t describe this particular boy’s situation it describes many others.

Is his mum to remain trapped in her own home with him at all times outside of school hours?
What about his medical appointments? How do they attend those? What about siblings’ activities? Families with disabilities are also at increased financial risk. Perhaps they have no choice but to use public transport.

And so on. It is so easy to say that the public needs to be safe but nobody thinks otherwise really. The reality is there is not enough support out there for disabled people and for family carers and until there is it is hard to see how things can improve.

Also agree with pp that this is a very depressing thread reading it from the pov of a disabled person’s family member. Some people are describing disabled people like they’re another species or something, there’s that sort of vibe on here 😕

I think people should be careful about stereotypes they feed into both on line and off. For example I'm also aware that it's not every man who is ND but do you think people shouldn't be able to discuss it? I would imagine it’s very far from “every man” in fact probably far far fewer men both in actual numbers and as a proportion of the ND population who commit these assaults. We can talk about anything but we have a responsibility to protect those who cannot protect themselves and who’s already limited lives are further limited by prejudice.

The proportion of people in prison with ND conditions is much much higher than the general population. Conditions that reduce/remove impulse control, empathy, ability to respond verbally, emotional regulation etc are bound to make someone higher risk.

As are the proportion of non white men, and men from deprived backgrounds is that because they are “higher risk” or because they are higher profile?

You don’t think someone with no impulse control or reduced impulse control makes them higher risk of acting impulsively in a way that is harmful?

@Resttime I don't agree that it's acceptable for a young child to be assaulted and that they shouldn't be allowed to hit back just because the perpetrator is ND. And I say that as an autistic person myself. I never laid a hand on a schoolmate despite being a victim of bullying for years. It does disabled people no favours to push this narrative of giving blanket permission for ND children to harm other kids. If anything it stigmatises them far more.

I refer to female children because girls and women are more vulnerable. I would be much more concerned about them internalising the message that it's okay for others to hurt them.

@Itisbetter Why are you trying to stifle discussion? Many people in this conversation are ND but still very concerned about harm to children in schools.

I would say a ND or learning disabled or autistic or person with MH challenges who is appropriately supported if FAR less likely to cause harm than the next person. They are also far MORE likely to be the victim of crime.

I don’t think I am and I don’t think I’ve shown any lack of concern for violence anywhere.

'I don't agree that it's acceptable for a young child to be assaulted' I don't either, which is why we shouldn't be encouraging it. As is often the case with ND DC, if you had punched one of your bullies, after years of taunting. Would it be right to suggest you getting hit back was you getting 'what you deserved' as the perpetrator of the violence? Should we encourage the bullies to be violent? Encouraging our DC to escalate the violence won't do anyone any favours.

I see you have added a condition to your statement now ‘who is appropriately supported’. What proportion do you think are ‘appropriately supported’?

A friend who is a psychiatrist who has worked in prisons considered that nearly everyone in prison had some sort of ND or MH challenges. He also noted that nearly every teenager with ADHD he saw who refused medication ended up in trouble with the law. They are ALSO be far more likely to be the victim of crime than a member of the general population.

This thread has gone like so many before..
Been done to death..

Turned into two very different subjects.
Disability....
Violence...

Just because you fall into the former doesn't mean the latter should be ignored and excused.

I'd image there are many ND people that don't have a violent bone in their body.

Those being on the receiving end of
someone else's violence...are they expected to just take it...if you don't like it you can jog on?

When does the person who's violence is out of their control become of an age where it becomes a criminal act to be violent towards another person and prosecution is the next step?

Should leniency be given in adulthood too?

Violence is never acceptable...and before anyone says no one is saying different here yes, yes they are, just using more words than needed to try and dress it up.

I agree that people supported appropriately are less likely to cause harm than unsupported people. I don't know whether they'd cause less harm than any random person as I havent seen stats.

I have read a report that says untreated adhd cost 11.7 million in the criminal justice system and if its recognised they can reduce criminality by 32% for men and 41% for women. Which shows it's really important to recognise it and deal with it. That doesn't mean not going to prison for crimes, but it does involve staff training, special education programmes, skills training and ongoing care post release.

Imagine if all that was in place before they became a criminal. It would be a much safer world.

(None of this means I think it's OK that people get hurt. Just that I think the response of the system and the prevention methods are different).

@Shatteredallthetimelately Well said.

I think a lot of people are limited in their understanding of disabilities, they don't think it through, or see the obvious implications or end result of having a difference in the way your brain works. I have even seen this shown by medical staff.

@Resttime I never would have punched someone. Not everyone with ND is violent.

I haven't said anywhere that they are. Neither are my ND DC. I have said that encouraging violence isn't sensible, situations aren't as black and white as parents think.

By ‘treatment’ they mean medication. Medications are a double-edged sword - they increase concentration and impulse control, and reduce hyperactivity. But they also leave some people feeling sluggish and not themselves. Some people can also lose too much weight or have other side effects. This means many people decide not to take them. Then you must also consider the ability of those with chaotic lifestyles to manage medication. On top of this there is a huge shortages of ADHD medications meaning many areas have simply stopped prescribing them to newly diagnosed individuals (who might have also waited years to be diagnosed ).